Beach fight - Side mount to gaurd

[cerebus]

....life guard, captain of the guard, etc.

[cerebus]

So... it's where you're lying on the ground with a man between your legs, eh? Ooooookay!

[Serpent]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Serpent,

The guard (and all it's variants) occurs when you are lying on the ground and have an opponent between your legs.

closed guard, open guard, butterfly guard, spider guard, x guard, high guard, rubber guard, crab guard,..

OK, thanks. So, if I'm on my back and a dude is between my legs (never thought I'd type that on a public forum! ) is he in my guard?

[cerebus]

Unless you're in San Francisco, in which case he's right where he wants to be...

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Serpent
OK, thanks. So, if I'm on my back and a dude is between my legs (never thought I'd type that on a public forum! ) is he in my guard?

Correct. I usually refer to the guard as "The best of the bad positions, and the worst of the good ones." It's better than any other position where you're on the bottom (mounted, side mounted, back mounted, north-south) but inferior to any top position.

[Serpent]

Cool. Cheers.

[Chang Style Novice]

FD - Isn't it also preferable to have guard than to be in guard? (At least from a sport grappling perspective.) Or perhaps you don't consider being in guard to be a truly 'top' position.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
FD - Isn't it also preferable to have guard than to be in guard? (At least from a sport grappling perspective.) Or perhaps you don't consider being in guard to be a truly 'top' position.

Yes. usually. here's the thing.. the more you & your opponent know about bjj & submission fighting the more neutral the guard will become. (Watch Fedor fight from within Nogueria's guard in Pride)

think of it this way... in sport bjj you got zero points awarded when you put someone in your guard, but when you pass someone's guard you get 3 pts. and if you can secure a dominant position you'll get even more.

being inside someone's guard is not a top position.

[Ray Pina]

I'm guessing the blond kid showed up and finally saw Pipleline wouldn't kill him, a small 2 to 3 feet and was like WOW, nobody's in the water. So what if there's a contest, I'll stay over here out of the way .... I could get away with it back home.

....
Anyway, the guy who took him down actually offered him his head. If the kid was trained or even a little bigger things could have been different.

...

Sad that it took the woman coming over for his friend to say enough, and break it up.

....
Surf trips can be hectic, hard balancing out being agressive enough to get waves and respect without stepping on toes.

The truth of the matter ism the pros, the hard core local rippers were probbaly on Jerry Lopez deck BBQ and laughing it off. It's these two kooks trying to look cool to the core guys, get some respect for themselves.

In the end, it was only 2 to 3 feet. They should have been surfing Rocky Rights or fishing.

[looking_up]

It's on sale too:

http://www.orcasurf.co.uk/acatalog/o...g_DVDS_21.html

Check the description for the "Free your Mind" DVD.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
FD - Isn't it also preferable to have guard than to be in guard? (At least from a sport grappling perspective.) Or perhaps you don't consider being in guard to be a truly 'top' position.

ST00 pretty much nailed this one. Guard and being-in-guard are pretty close to neutral; which one is preferable largely depends on the specific skills of the people involved.

[Mika]

Originally posted by looking_up
It's on sale too:

http://www.orcasurf.co.uk/acatalog/o...g_DVDS_21.html

Check the description for the "Free your Mind" DVD.

The great, late Frank Zappa once said: "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."

[Serpent]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Yes. usually. here's the thing.. the more you & your opponent know about bjj & submission fighting the more neutral the guard will become. (Watch Fedor fight from within Nogueria's guard in Pride)

think of it this way... in sport bjj you got zero points awarded when you put someone in your guard, but when you pass someone's guard you get 3 pts. and if you can secure a dominant position you'll get even more.

being inside someone's guard is not a top position.

OK, I can see this is going to go on a while! Can you explain "passing the guard"? I think I know what you mean, but I want to be sure.

Why do I always have terminology problems here? It happens all the time in the training forum too!

[ShaolinTiger00]

"passing the guard" simply means getting past his legs to a more advantageous position, which can be achieved in many ways. Almost all of them involving creating space, shutting down his hip movement and then moving over, under or thru(up the middle) his legs.

Ex. you and I are practicing bjj. you and I start standing and I shhot in for a takedown, you were suprised due to my masterful setup , but are quickly adapting. as we got down, You grab my head and an elbow and wrap your legs around my waist.

I am now in your closed guard.

We hit the ground and I realize I'm in a bad spot. You could sweep me over and take a great position mounted over me, or you can apply submissions from where you are, or if we were striking, you could hit me.

So the pressure is one me at this point. again if striking were involved I might try to "soften you up" to aid my mission. - to pass your guard.

After some jockeying and defending, I manage to pass your guard. I quickly move to knee on chest. and look for more strikes of submissions.

or maybe I don't ! maybe you sweep me and I'm now mounted and you sink in an armlock, choke etc..

or maybe I use a knee thru escape and get back to the half guard. now you'll start to work on freeing your leg and I'll work towards putting you in a full guard or trying a sweep from here.

you can see.. many posibilites. but the strategy always remains the same.

Progress to a more dominant position. position then submission.

So maybe you can see that this is why bjj creates such an effective system. the system is never random techniques. you have specific attacks and defenses that you perform in trying to move up ther heirarchy.

[Serpent]

Cool. Thanks very much for that. Be careful with the bjj love, though. I've been enjoying your clear explanations of the terminology, but these methods are not exclusive to bjj.

Anyway, thanks again. You can have some flan.