Buddhism and Kung Fu

[David Jamieson]

Buddhism started 2500 years ago in India

The "Buddha", that is to say, teh Buddha Guatama was Nepalese.

From there, the concepts moved into and developed in India. Later, the mahayana school moved into China and abroad.

But the older forms of Buddhism (therevada) are found in Nepal and Tibet.

Chan is a sect of buddhism that sprang up at Shaolin temple and so, that form of Buddhism, from a pure border perspective, is Chinese in origin.

But then, many people know nothing of the CHinese practice of Ch'an and more readily understand the idea of the Japanese Zen.

It is probably best to not associate buddhism with a nation though in the end. Its a practice and way of life that anyone of any religion can ake part in.

All they need to recognize is the 4 noble truths.
All they need to practice is the 8 fold path.

the 4 and the 8 fit with pretty much any other morality lessons in my opinion ergo making buddhist philosophy accessable to any and all persona who practiecs some other form of religiosity.

[Simhanada]

Vajrayana is the Tibetan Buddhist School, as a branch of Mahayana, not Theravada.

[David Jamieson]

my apols for not being clear.

tibetan buddhism is pretty much recognized as being developed in isolation from the lesser and great vehicles.

I am not certain it is correct to call it a branch of mahayana. It is probably more apropo to let it be known as Tibetan buddhism.

It is also likely that it developed from a little of both. The original therevada and the migrant mahayana.

Tibetan buddhism is definitely unique in many aspects when held to the other practices involving religious buddhism.

Because tibet abuts nepal, it is likely that it was carried into Tibet very early on. It is hard to say from this that it is a sect of mahayana which came much later than tibetan exposure to buddhist teachings.

hence my comment about Tibetan being closer to the old style than the later mahayana.

nowadays, there is a trend towards the term "modern buddhism".
There is not so much focus on the school as there is on the core teachings. In my opinion, this is a better way to take buddhism into the future.

after all, we are in teh back half of buddhism now, as teh buddha said it will only be extant for 5000 years after which it will have served it's purpose and no longer be of any use.

[Simhanada]

Thats OK

Theravada, which is the only early surviving Buddhist school - there were many others, did attempt establishment in Tibet but failed. So too did non-Tantric Mahayana. This too failed. This is well known in Buddhism. Vajrayana is a special part of Mahayana.

It gets confusing. Vajrayana is the 'third turning of the wheel of dharma'.

Hinayana (Theravada) is the so called 'lesser vehicle' (First Turning) Mahayana the 'greater vehicle' (Second Turning) Vajrayana the diamond indestructable vehicle - the Third...

Vajrayana is certainly different from the generality of 'Mahayana' but shares certain things in common which are absent in Theravada (Hinayana).

Vajrayana is influenced by Hindu Tantra, Bon-Po Shamanism and by Mahayana.

Its as difficult to define in direct terms as Chinese martial arts

[CharlesDaCosta]

Originally posted by Kairo
Do practitioners of both these disciplines exist here?

If so, could you please tell me what you think about the relative benefits they offer each other, or point me to somewhere that may explain this?

Thank you.

I am a practioner of both. A side effect of the two is abilities that are above normal. The Buddhist call it psychic powers. This could be demonstrated in something as simple as breaking a 1 inch board with your fist (the average person can't do this without hurting their hand), to breaking the board using concentration alone (without touching it).

Buddhism teaches a code of moral conduct and self-discipline. These things are required to be an appreciated Kung fu master.

Do you have specific questions?

[canglong]

the void, Nameless, Tao

[SPJ]

Cool link.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Kung Lek

But the older forms of Buddhism (therevada) are found in Nepal and Tibet.
.

I'm sorry but I will have to disagree with you on this point Kung Lek. Tibetan Buddhism is a third branch (other than Mahayana and "Foundational Buddhism" - of which Theravada is the only surviving sect) called Vajrayana (meaning Diamond or Thunderbolt vehicle). This path is considered to be more closely related to Mahayana than to Foundational Buddhism because it venerates Bodhisattvas more than Arhats.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Kung Lek

1 becomes 2, 2 becomes 3 and 3 becomes the 10,000 things.

Laotzu - Tao Te Ching (Dedaojing).

But Laotzu is not all of Taoism.

[SimonM]

I was doing some random reading in an old book I found around my house and I came across a few quotes that really help to clarify the relationship between Buddhism and Kung Fu.

Note - this is specifically about Ch'an/Zen Buddhism but we should remember the Shaolin are a Ch'an orde.

All quotes are from "Oriental Philosophies by John M. Koller. It was published by Charles Scribner's Sons in 1970.

This discipline {zazen} requires assuming complete control and regulation of the hands, feet, legs, arm, trunk and head. Next breathing must be regulated so that the activities of the mind can be brought under control. Through a series of special forms of concentration the emotions and volitions are brought under control and harmonized with intellect. Having attained the foregoing, it remains to cultivate what is usually called a deep or profound silencce in the deepest recesses of one's being.

You can see how the practice of Kung Fu can be used as a form of zazen practice through this quote.

Zen emphasizes the integrity and completeness of the present moment of experience wherein there is no distinction between subject and object.

Clear examples exist of this in push-hands where harmony with the partner is emphasized over a brute application of force. In a more abstract sense, one can also refer back to the idea of complete body control in the previous quote. If there is no distinction between subject and object (self and other) than physical control of the self and physical control of the other is one and the same.

Now when you consider the material conditions of out-of-shape monks that Bodidharma encountered when he entered China you can see why physical exertion may be a beneficial aspect; incorporating a physical fitness regimen into a form of meditation.

Finally, consider the reality of life in medaeval China. With many mountain ranges, parts of China could be quite isolated. In the hinterlands bandits and dangerous animals occured with regularity. Buddhism is a missionary religion; if it was not it would never have extended to China from Nepal and India. If the physical fitness regimen that doubles as meditation also allows monks to defend themselves at need than it makes the exercise all the more valuable.

In the modern period bandits and animal attacks are not the threat they once were. However exercise is still important, zazen is still part of Ch'an Buddhist practice, Kung Fu thus still serves important roles for the Buddhist.