Here's my xmas present for you

[hasayfu]

Why are the stances not the super low you see in many schools?

1) Many schools go too low. Even for stance training, you want to get the point where the rooting is greatest. If you are too high or too low your root suffers. It's all about the baby bear.

That said, the drawing still show stances that are slightly higher then optimal. Here are some theories:
1) Photography in those days didn't have instant flash. You had to hold positions for a considerable amount of time. My guess is, many pictures were taken so he might have wanted to conserve energy

2) I am told that LSW had a hernia during the photo shoot. That could explain some stuff.

Notice though, that he is able to get low on some of the shots.

Thanks Kung Lek for putting it together,

[South Paw]

hasayfu,

You just said it the right way in option 2. That's what I've heard before.

[Tiet Sow]

Garra De Tiger--

Funny to find your post at this time for me---I am also making the Hung Gar to CLF transition w/that same issue. Thought you may appreciate some company with that------

Kung Lek & Master Killer--

Thnx for the gift (pics)--- feel bad I didnt get you guys anything--

Tiet Sow
(Tom)

[unixfudotnet]

Thanks

Is there a repository somewhere of forms?

[David Jamieson]

I don't think you want to put forms up your bum...

oh. sorry, you said "repository" lol.

actually, cyberkwoon has a ton of pdfs on a few styles, plus videos and other goodies covering several asian styles including many shaolin forms.

you need to contribute to get stuff though. So be prepared to post useful stuff and in return you can access the downloads which have mucho stuffo.

[Doug]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
The actual expression in a set is different and low stances require more energy from the performer and subsequently don't have as much effectiveness for fighting because you can't give that power to force issuance and instead are using it to build your frame.

On the contrary, low stances are incredibly effective for fighting. If you always train in a good, low stance, your body will begin to adjust to the pain and physical positioning. You will develop a lot of power, particularly if you do some form of hand training. Your base (legs) begin to seem like they are strongly connected to the ground. Power is more easily generated in the twists and turns that are the techniques practiced. The result is a matter of how much effort you are willing to put into it.

It is also excellent for transitioning between height levels. You can move very fast from a standing position to one on the floor and back up again. Just train for it, and power will come.

Someone asked about Hung gar and Choy Li Fut transitions. I just train in low stances for both of them. Well, Choy Lit Fut stances are a bit higher, but I still do not stand up where my legs are barely bent. In my training, I have benefited so much from low stances that I cannot imagine getting anywhere near my progress without it.

It hurts, yes, but why would anyone want to hold onto the pain? Just let it go, concentrating, for instance, on what the hands are doing. Be patient (yes, even when it hurts and feels like you cannot stand anymore), and results will come with consistent, porlonged practice.

Doug M

[David Jamieson]

doug-

The training stances build strength and stability. Train low, fight high is a rule of thumb in stand up fighting. Most kungfu, if not all is stand up fighting.

can you get in low and strike? sure? will you get tired in a perpetual low stance, you sure will.

I have yet to meet a kungfu teacher who says, fight from a low stance. Instead, I have found that most are unanimous when they say, train low to build strength and let that strength explode from a more natural position.

wide doesn't mean low, high doesn't mean narrow and unstable.

If you are consistantly in a deep horse of bow or whatever, you are indeed wasting the enrgy you could be using to launch your stuff or to move.

Outside of compliant drills and forms, I would like to see where someone actually consistantly stays in a low stance and proclaims that it is an advantage. I have never seen this and I'm not exactly a spring chicken at this stuff.

I train low too. After a while, it doesn't hurt so much anymore as your body adapts to its' new way of framing itself. But I will not watse one drop of energy holding a deep stance when someone is rushing me. If I gotta go low, fine, but I ain't staying there and I'm not fighting out of a low stance.

...anyway, wanted to clarify my point and disagree a little at the same time.

[unixfudotnet]

power is internal and also a by product of proper technique.

stand low/high doesn't matter much, as long as you are comfortable and aren't blocking yourself. granted I am a tai chi guy, but it is portable to hard styles as well.

there is a right way, and there is a wrong way, and your body will tell you the difference if you listen

I am still learning to listen as well

[Doug]

Kung Lek,

Well, you mostly do clarify your explanation, but disagreement is not really applicable, given that I never said one MUST ALWAYS fight with a low horse, bow, scissors, cat, or hanging horse stance. I responded to your claim, which states that low stances are not as effective for fighting. Does one always walk in a low stance? Does one always run in a low stance? No, people don't; and I never claimed that. I did, however, state that low stances are effective in fighting. The advantages are quite obvious. I just pointed out two of them. Nowhere do I say one should hold a low stance throughout a violent encounter, but using such a stance would be very beneficial at times.

Other than that, there is not much else to say.

Doug M

[Pork Chop]

kung lek

been out of town for work. I realized reading my words that i wasn't too careful in chosing them. hehe
what i meant to say is that instead of seeing the form on a poster, i decided to actually learn the form from a close friend.
i'm still just starting and it'll probably take a year; but i've wanted this form for a loooooong time.

[David Jamieson]

why? because of it's ancient shaolin-ness?

[SimonM]

Bumping this thread up for the .gif.

[Pork Chop]

honestly?

I wanted a good kung fu form with some solid qigong training that I could use as a warm up to keep my body in better health and be better able to deal with the constant abuse of full contact training.

I also think it'd be great as an added resource to pull stuff from- something to give me a little more "flair" or "flavor".

I train with some tien shan pai (northern) guys and notice that they've all got similar (good) kicks, a similar movement style, and pretty good throws. They have a pretty consistant "flavor" when they fight, even if they stop doing forms & only train "san shou" for extended periods of time.

I've always liked hung gar and wanted to learn it.
I've also always wanted something to stick with long term; which is hard when you move a lot.

[gwa sow]

christmas present, you forgot hanu.. chanu... um kwanza.

not a hung gar man but i think its lam sai wing doing Fu Hok

http://lib.nanhai.gd.cn/local/HuHeSh...en/page_01.htm

some other stuff if anyone reads chinese
http://lib.nanhai.gd.cn/local/HuHeSh...ng/page_01.htm

http://lib.nanhai.gd.cn/local/HuHeSh...ng/page_01.htm

[David Jamieson]

indeed! the whole book scanned in too! cool.

what a lovely thing the interweb is.