Patnered Sets

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Let me relay to you a situation that I wasn't equipped to handle. When a massive fight broke out into the street at a combined birthday party (we pooled resources and had the mother of all parties) I grabbed a guy off the pile that was beating his friend (the guy that started the fight). When he turned and started swinging at me I backed off blocking everything he threw. When I saw an opening I moved in and started jacking him. Then two guys grabbed me from behind one on each arm. With my arms pulled back the guy I was fighting took a swing but missed because the 2 guys yanked me back out of his reach. Luckily they were just trying to stop the fighting and let go when someone told them it was my party and I was one of the good guys.

My opponent afterwards claimed he didn't realize it was me and would not have fought if he new. Actually we had a previous altercation which resulted in him sending a goon squad out the next day to jack me but luckily I was cooling off in jail so I avoided that beating. But I digress, that's another story entirely.

The point of the story is that if those 2 guys really intended me harm I would have been hurting. It bothered me (and still does to this day) that I was not equiped to handle that attack. Maybe that's why I have a different perspective on multi attacker scenerios.

[sayloc]

Hua lin

Did your previous kenpo instructors teach any self defense for these situations? I have done a little kenpo and they taught quite a few techniques along with some in depth theory. Maybe you should dust off some of your old notes

The problem with two on one situations like yours is that you have to use lethal techniques untill you can get away. You cant have any compassion or just try to control or maintain distance like you may be able to do in a one on one fight. You were at a party with friends and may not have wanted to take out a knee or gouge an eye. You would have to have been prepared to hurt them badly. That is hard to do with neighbors.

Mr. 108

Thanks for your info. Could I ask what is your take on sei lo bun da? Fighting just one person? If so has anyone ever seen a ling side for this form?

Thanks

[mantis108]

To my knowledge, Si Lu Bun Da is not a mantis original. It is a Changquan form that was absorbed into mantis. Most or even non of the Greater Meihwa lines (TJPM, TJMHPM, MHPM, 8 Steps, Mimen, etc...) have this form at all. The SLBD is more common to 7star lines. BTW, I have seen a couple versions of this but have not learn this. Honestly, I am not much of a fan on this form.

I am not aware of a partner set of this form. If there is anyone who would know of this, it would be Shifu Shr Zhengzhong (Tainan Mantis' Shifu) of Ponglai. May be Tainan Mantis can chime in here.

Hualin,

I think the situation was more of an awareness problem. The only defense I can think of is don't be there. Also getting into a fight situation with many and you are all by yourself and no weapon is pretty much suicide. You are lucky to be alive IMHO. So, you still have 7 lives left?

Hope this helps

Mantis108

[sayloc]

Doesnt sa lo bun da translate to somthing like four roads running or four directional fighting? If so there could be your multiple attacker form.

Yushan

Can you get any info on this form?


I have a version supposed to be 7* (not sure of the family line) that has alot of kicks and goes in the four directions. Would be hard to do as a multi attacker form.

[shirkers1]

Hua, yes I've been in that position as well but take this into account. I grew up with boxers and iron workers in a small marine/farm town, so fighting was just a way of life. Rule number one never ever grab your friend when a fight is going down. Why? Because if you come near me or grab me you are getting hit, without question because of the multiple attacker thing. Sadly this includes bouncers, I as well as my friends don't want someone grabbing us then mr tough guy suckering you why you're being held back. So never let any one get close to you period, hit or get out of there.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Well, we can discuss the technicalities of what to do in that situation but the point was that I was in a multi attacker situation I wasn't prepared to handle.

sayloc
That was a loooong time ago when fighting was my idea of fun. I had some training at the time but I was taken off guard. My arms were held so no chance to gouge, punch, etc and I was yanked off balance backwards so kicking etc. was out. Neither was close enough to bite or head butt.

mantis108 nailed it as an awareness problem. That's what bothers me about it, the fact that I focused on one opponent and failed to keep track of my surroundings in the midst of a gang fight. And I should have know better.

"The only defense I can think of is don't be there."

Well, it was my party and I wasn't about to miss all that fun.
Like shirkers1 said, when you grow up like that it's just normal behavior so you just jump in. I'm also not the spectator type.

shirkers1
How about the wife/girlfriend that tries to stop you from fighting and grabs your arm at exactly the wrong time. Can't take her out with a punch or you won't be getting any for a long time.

My wife grabbed the guy I was fighting once and got in the way. I told her to let him go so I could finish it but she was too fired up.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe multi attacker situations should be addressed in your training. You can practice a defense for someone grabbing you from behind but it's a little different when you're focused on the fight on hand when the rear attack comes.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Oh, Wah Lum has a Say Lo Bun Da. I'll run through it and see if I can find some multi attacker moves. Off hand though I don't think there are any in this form.

There are moves in other forms that can be used against a second opponent but I don't think they're used that way in the context of the form. You need to look for alternating direction changes especially if there is an ending move just before the direction change.

[shirkers1]

Hua that's funny you say that about the ladies, I actually had to cut my last post short because my girlfriend showed up while I was writing it. I also make the point to my "girlfriend" whatever to NEVER get in the way because she or I could be the one to get hurt. Best thing to do is (depending on where she's at) to just go lock herself in the car and call the cops.

Man I'm glad I live in another city now.... Stay out of trouble,

Awareness is the #1 thing, if you are aware of your surroundings then 99.9% of issues can be avoided. Don't get me wrong I don't think you should ignore that scenario at all. Just training it as a form is pretty much not going to help. The way you train it is probably the best way to get the sensitivity of being run at from all angles.

[yu shan]

Where the heck did you guys grow up? Hell or the state penitentiary?

From what I have learned so far in our forms that include the ling side, it is against a single opponent. HLL, Wah Lum has the three man weapon form, two spears against three sectional. What is your take on this form? You stay out of trouble now ya here.

[shirkers1]

yushan lol....... No not hell OHIO!!! Close enough...

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

New Jersey for me. I'm too old for trouble these days. I haven't hit anyone in at least 8 years now.

Wah Lum 3-man weapon set is a show form as far as I know. It's not in the curriculum so I don't think it's a training set. However, I thinks weapons sets should get into multi attack situations since it was probably more likely to be fighting with them in the battlefield. I'll let the historians comment on that.

[yu shan]

Hua Lin,

Hey you from jersey I`m from jersey, which exit? Just a little humor there. I know the spear vs 3 sectional was made up, still very good though.

Shifu Brazier taught the Pong Lai USA group what he called the "Sun and Moon" line. He told us it was the ancient way of teaching weapons, I guess to the military of the time. It is unique and I use it with hand drills. Visitors are always impressed. My students are usually reluctant at first, but get fired up and end with a charles mason glaze in their eyes.

Mantis 108,

Can you shed some light on your knowledge of the "sun and moon" ? Thank you in advance.

[yu shan]

Charles Manson!!! I cant type worth a darn.

Shirkers 1,

Come on now, isnt your Shifu from OH ten? And the best tomatoes in the world. Outside of Ruskin Fla tomatoes that is.

[shirkers1]

Yes mike as well as family and friends are in ohio. I have no one out here in phoenix after the divorce accept myself and the dogs yet I'm still here. That should say something. Mike actually says the same thing about ohio some parts are nice but you have to leave those parts eventually.

My last fight was feb of last year, on my birthday, while visiting ohio. lol I'm beginning to see a paaatttttern.