Chan Tai San stories

[BAI HE]

We're all nobodies in Gung-Fu.

I used to disageree with Coach/ Sifu/ Dave or whatever you call Mr. Ross these days. The more I study, the more I see where he's right and I've been wrong.

Sometimes it was the rhetoric, sometimes it was my understanding, now that I have the frame or reference and a deeper perspective on Mr. Ross's experiences, I understand.

Somewhere I smell coffee brewing...

People can **** all over the internet, but over all? I think it's
been great for martial arts. Everyone would still be in the dark about methods, mcdojo's, bad training, myths and the like if it wasn't here. Woulda been easy for Mr. Ross and many others to just stand back and run their schools and live their lives without all this online ****.

But if you're involved and love CMA? **** is part and parcel of "The Way", always has been, always will be.

[Anthony]

To Mr. Parrella:

Frist off let me just say thanx for your civil response above (I expected worse from many of the visitors here). Now I just want to add a few comments.

"We understand gravity, right? I do not have to hold you out of a window and drop you on your head to prove it works though, right?"

The thing is that we not only "understand" gravity but we DO see it and use it everyday. We don't just walk around with an understanding of it and no real life application of it.

"Martial arts is the same. I don't have to crack someone's head open to prove a technique works. It might prove whether I can beat you or not in a fight, but we can determine (if we have a decent 'martial IQ') if a technique is valid, right? We an spar with control and investigate the technique in a variety of circumstances. Discuss whether or not it's got speed, power, if it's difficult to counter, etc. No matter what though, everyone may still have a different angle or 'take' on the technique. "

That's true ( we all train in this way) but it means we have pretty much a "theoretical" understanding of REAL fighting and what works. I don't blame TCMA for this because, obviously, you can't practice fighting for real (the adrenaline rush of a real fight, knowing your life is really in danger, etc.). The problem is that if youre not some street thug or been in some crazy situations, your nerves might blow everything you know out the window if someone ever does jump you and threaten you. Again, you just can't train that type of fearlessness. Chan Tai San seemed to have it because of his life's circumstances (war, gangs, etc.). Just for the record, I wasn't trying to belittle his life's experiences (if that's what you thought). I'm just saying it's not that uncommon. There are American boys overseas right now killing people and getting killed. There is poverty and strife in many other parts of the world.

"I speak for myself here, but I believe a lot of other people feel the same. "It's about the guy, not the style." A person may have 100 really good moves, but can be beat by the guy who knows his 5 moves better. That doesn't mean the guys 5 moves are all superior. It just means he applied them better, that's all."

I pretty much agree. The man makes the suit for the most part.

"And yes, there are many people who give CMA a bad name. A lot who give all marital arts a bad name. Some CMA are still living in MA fantasy world. But to trash CMA as a whole when some of the icons of it have done more than you and I will ever do....that's just plain ignorant. Think about it; You or I will probably never KILL anyone with our martial arts. Does that mean they or we are no good?"

"Give CMA it's credit. It spawned every known structured MA today. The chinese used to to defend attacks from every border (and they are pretty little guys) some guys were famous for killing people in real matches. KILLING PEOPLE. Don't be ignorant and join the few who 'haven't seen it happen, so it can't be true.' Kung-Fu isn't science fiction."

With TCMA history being so obscure and embellished by legend, it's hard to know what past icons have done. I guess that what I'm saying is that I AM ignorant (from a certain point of view, and, that we probably all are). It's just that you get tired of hearing the "real so-and-so skill exists, you just haven't seen it" argument. I do give CMA credit for it's benefits (we all know them already). But I also feel that it's given alot of undue credit as well. Especially when you look at the accomplishments of the martial/military arts of nations around the world and throughout history.

As a side note, we're obvioulsy raised in the same culture and I have no military experience (college) but I feel lucky to not have the burden of knowing that I killed someone either for my country or in self-defense. With the morality/religion that I was raised with, I don't know how I would handle it (taking a life). I'd be interested in knowing how anyone else feels about that.

"Kung-Fu isn't science fiction"

Unfortunately, I'm beginning to feel that some of it may be just that. Some of the movements seem to be purely aesthetic in nature, purpose and origin. With time, maybe people began to think that some of these movements actually came from real combat and came up with applications for them. This could explain why in TCMA you frequently see things demonstrated that you know wouldn't work in reality. Again, what do you think?

Good Luck to you too.

[lkfmdc]

I used to disageree with Coach/ Sifu/ Dave or whatever you call Mr. Ross these days. The more I study, the more I see where he's right and I've been wrong.

Sometimes it was the rhetoric, sometimes it was my understanding, now that I have the frame or reference and a deeper perspective on Mr. Ross's experiences, I understand.

Somewhere I smell coffee brewing...

Mr Ross is my dad

Most people just call me David..... I actually hate "Dave"

But I'm glad you enjoyed the ride....

The thing about this thread, and having Chris and Michael on it, well, darn, what a life! Almost like a fantasy, at times hard to imagine I did all this.....

But I do miss my sifu, every day

[Wood Dragon]

I noticed this with the chinese culture, movies like the last emperor show this, they are very subordinate and follow orders even though they dont always have to and instead of saying thank you or simply greeting an emperor with a smile and a nod like a white person would they would bow really low and get on their knees same thing with sifu student relationship I guess as depicted by shaw brothe rmovies and the like.

Whew, for a second I thought you were going to make a blanket statement concerning 1,000,000,000+ people, BASED ON MOVIES!!!!

You are terribly ignorant. Worse, you are unaware of your ignorance. I forbid you from watching movies and entertainment media. You shall watch Animal Planet, TLC, and the Discovery networks. Until further notice.

Don't worry, the Chinese -probably- won't sacrifice you to their unspeakable Monkey-Gods.

[Dale Dugas]

Sifu Ross,

I thank you for answering my questions. I know sun dar is not something to joke about, but I wanted to ask as its one of those fringe things that is so **** curious to try and understand.

I look forward to your book.

This thread is one of if not the best one here IMHO.

The tools and the trolls can only help it be colorful.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Anthony,

Thanks for the post. It's nice to know that people can share opinions without resulting in name calling or being disrespectful.

You know, I looked at the last line of both our posts about KF not being Science fiction, and I had to laught; I have seen so many people claim to do so many 'hokey' things, or ridiculous demonstrations of chi that it makes me sick. There is probably more BS in CMA than any other. "Oh, I learned from a monk in China, but I can't speak Chinese and I can't reveal his name." or "I can't use my mental death ray/touch on your because you are not ready for it, it would kill you." and sh*t like that. It really is deplorable.

Now remember, this is only my opionon. but my Sifu, Chan Tai-San was the real deal. No smoke, no mirrors. I didn't see movies of his fights. They didn't seem like they were huge accomplishments to him. (they did seem pretty cool to other people who had witnessed some back in China and told me about them). However, I did see; A bayonett scar, about 2.5 " long in his leg by his knee, machine gun bullets scars on his lower legs, a 1.5 scar on his head from being his with a weapon (i can't remember what weapon it was) and a dozen or so other scars resulting from fights. Now again, he could have been a victim of severe child abuse, but I doubt it.

One of the cool things about me teacher is, he never said he was great, the best or anything else. I didn't really know that he was as good as he was for a couple of years, until everywhere me and my classmates went, people where always telling us, "you are so lucky! Do you know who this man is? Do you know how good he is? Then some would tell a story about seeing him fight, etc.

Probably the coolest stories came from other people telling me. Now I understand that there is always an exxageration factor, but still. To hear so many amazing fight stories from so many different people,....

As mentioned before, he was so cool because he never bragged about his skill or made self proclaimed "I am great" statements. He had respect for all martial arts and skills and I never ever heard him put down and style, not even non CMA. He actually liked Karate practioners. He would say how strong the Japanese were and that they were good fighters.

He also once told me about a guy in china who was so good, he would have been killed by him withing 10 seconds! "That is how good this other guy was", he said. I thought that was pretty cool and of course very humble of him.

Anyone can beat almost anyone under the right circumstances (within reason) Hey..does anyone remember a little fight between two guys named Tyson and Douglass? (Depressing night for me and many others) Anything can happen.

All the best.

[Reign-Of-Terror]

He also once told me about a guy in china who was so good, he would have been killed by him withing 10 seconds! "That is how good this other guy was", he said. I thought that was pretty cool and of course very humble of him.

what was that fighters name?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I don't remember the guys name. I just remember talking to my teacher one day about his classmates, which one was the best, who could he beat....blah blah blah. And then it came up that there was a guy who would have 'easily' killed him in a real fight. I don't remember what skills the guy had that would make my Sifu say that, but he was serious about it.

[BAI HE]

I'd rather forget someone like that too...

I've met some people with scary skill sets in MA. Most of them have been
fairly innocous in appearance and ratherv docile. That's a good thing I suppose.
I'm not sure if it is a by-product of training, or an aspect of character growth.

I suppose if you spend a good amount of time in MA, you always want to train with people who are better than you, at a certain juncture, you may not find a peer. Luckily, I don't have that problem.

[anton]

More stories please...

Also just wondering whether CTS ever knew the Laceys or their sifus Kong Hing or Lai Hung.

[GreenCloudCLF]

I would actually like to hear the story of Si-Gung Chan's training brother who was disowned by Jyu Chyuhn.

[lkfmdc]

Jyu Chyuhn's #1 student, who got kicked out, was never discussed much by Chan Tai San. It came out just once, almost randomly.... He was kicked out as a teenager if I remember, for doing some bad stuff.... but it also means that he didn't get any Lama Pai, just Choy Lay Fut, from Jyu Chyuhn

With sifu's passing, it is going to be hard to keep track of all the lines. According to sifu Frank Yee, Lei Fei San is still alive, healthy and teaching a very large group near the temple. He teaches military and police so he is quite well off

Chiu Wan San was in Chicago, but I haven't heard from him in years....

I got a report another one of Sifu's hing-dai was in the Filipines.... never got more than a rumor

[EPang]

Hello Sifu Ross,

I sorry to post this here but I was wondering CTS had any good students here in Toronto. If not do you know any good CMA instructors?

Also more stories please.

Thx!

[lkfmdc]

I've spent the last few days updating www.LamaKungFu.org

New pictures, including old pics of applictions

[GreenCloudCLF]

Great updates Sifu Ross. Keep all the info coming...can't get enough