Chan Tai San stories

[ReignOfTerror]

The incidents he cites are in no way representative of either art as a whole.

neither did the first ufcs, and all those challenges in brazil not to mention current mma world right? if so why all the switch of thousands of martial artists to that particular style or particular philosophy of styles than? if it didnt mean anything?

[LifelongLearner]

All those UFC's? I don't recall a large number of UFC fighters claiming Kung Fu as their discipline. There were a few, yes, and I don't recall a single one of them doing well, either. That still means nothing where the big picture is concerned. UFC is a sport, not street fighting and certainly not fighting for your life. On that subject, I'll cater to your logic for a moment. The UFC is Helio Gracie's baby. He's a great martial artist and a very shrewd businessman. The sport was hand tailored for his art to shine. And yes, it did indeed change the MA world. I recall in the first couple of UFC's, BJJ utterly dominated. The public is fickle, and people's views are very easily manipulated by the media (YOU are a prime example of this). So at first, people saw how effective BJJ was and instantly called it a superior MA. Grappling was king, striking was no longer. Now consider that the vast majority of the strikers that went in there had no idea what they were getting themselves into. And who says the guys we saw fight and continue to see fight are the best representatives of their respective disciplines, anyway? But anyway, fast forward a couple of UFC's, and lo and behold, fighters other than BJJers become competitive and start winning. So what happened? They got smart and started cross training. Suddenly BJJ's not invincible any more. And lets not forget the early successes of guys like Dan Severn when he was in his prime. Mark Coleman. Mark Kerr. Western wrestlers. When they won, did you momentarily switch camps to their fighting styles? Yes, all of those guys seem to have lost their edge now, so don't even go there. That'd be straying from the point again, anyway. All I'm saying is that they were all successful at some time. More than successful. Dominant. And along came better fighters. That's the nature of the game though. Should we all just switch to whatever style is currently most popular or most successful in the UFC? Is the UFC your idea of the ultimate testing ground? If so, it shows how limited your vision is. I might add, yet again, you've changed the subject and still have not adressed the inappropriateness of your comments on a thread dedicated to CTS, not debates on the superiority of this or that MA. You're flailing, ROT.

Why don't you just get to the very point of what's on your mind? If you're so dead set on citing how MT and BJJ are so superior, then why are you wasting your time on a TCMA forum? And why do you still fail to answer the overriding issue of your lack of respect for the purpose of this thread? How many times do you have to be told to start another thread? Stop posting off disrespectful and off-topic rubbish. If you do actually start another thread, don't be surprised if no one comes to play/argue with you, though. Sifu Ross had you pegged from the beginning. You're a troll who wants nothing more than to argue with people and disrupt the thread.

[ReignOfTerror]

But anyway, fast forward a couple of UFC's, and lo and behold, fighters other than BJJers become competitive and start winning. So what happened? They got smart and started cross training. Suddenly BJJ's not invincible any more. And lets not forget the early successes of guys like Dan Severn when he was in his prime. Mark Coleman. Mark Kerr.

first off Dan Severn, Mark Coleman, etc. all share something similar with the gracies in the regard they all are grapplers. Not bjj but grapplers dominated the martial art world at the time. Secondly no pure strikers dominated and no pure strikers dominate the martial art world today as evidence by hundreds of mma events all around the world, there isnt a single one of them, they all have to crosstrain in grappling while grapplers dont have to crosstrain ins triking (watch the ultimatefighter and tell me how bad their striking is (some of them) compared to their grappling). ANd thirdly all styles including the striking styles are sport styles, there isnt a single tma used in the average mma curiculum or respected by mma fanboys. But if you feel so threatened by my posts than fine I wont post anymore in this thread, I thought the discussion was getting dry cause no one posted stuff about cst for awhile, and it seems all that has been said is already posted. If you post more its fine we can dsicuss it or read it, I dont see how my posts are egtting in the way of that. And by the way even kung fu people agree tht their styles are ifnerior:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=37507
technique/training methods/and everything else wise.

[LifelongLearner]

OK, so you've almost finally come out and just said what's really on your mind. It seems that for you, the underlying issue is the superiority of grappling over striking. Now let's get to your weak arguments. Severn and Coleman share things in common with the Gracies. Huh. They are freestyle wrestlers, raised on Olympic and Greco-Roman wrestling that has since evolved in the West. Do I have to break down "Greco-Roman" to you, or are you all over that one? Have you considered tracing BJJ's roots? Helio Gracie modified a Japanese system. Trace the Japanese systems roots, and where do they go? China. You must be familiar with Chin Na, yes? How about Shuai Jiao? Eagle Claw? These names ring a bell? It's amusing that you insist on bashing the very roots of JJ and BJJ. Do you think Helio invented the concepts of joint locking and choking? He certainly developed his to a razor's edge. On a side note (and by no means am I citing this as a major point to my argument), I seem to recall Bruce Lee busting out a classic armbar in one of his movies (Bruce Lee fans help me out with a title here, it escapes me). That was more than 30 years ago. Did he get that from Helio? And I never said grappling wasn't important. It should be part of any well rounded system. It certainly exists in TCMA, just not with the same emphasis as in BJJ. On the other hand, that's ALL they do in BJJ. Oh, and where do you get off saying ALL styles are sport styles? Do I really need to tell you how ignorant that statement is? What other drivel did you post.....oh yeah. No dominant strikers, huh? What do you call Chuck Liddell? Don't give any crap about him being MMA. That man's a striker at his core and how did he get the majority of his wins? KO. With strikes. UFC aint the only game in town. What about K-1? Yes, they follow a different rule set, but how do the majority of their fighters win? And San Da? That's a mixed bag. A very good representative of a well rounded fighting style. Intimidated by your posts? Please. You do more damage to yourself with you own words than I would ever have to do on my own. Your ignorance makes it easy.

[ReignOfTerror]

Do I have to break down "Greco-Roman" to you, or are you all over that one? Have you considered tracing BJJ's roots? Helio Gracie modified a Japanese system. Trace the Japanese systems roots, and where do they go? China. You must be familiar with Chin Na, yes? How about Shuai Jiao? Eagle Claw? These names ring a bell? It's amusing that you insist on bashing the very roots of JJ and BJJ.

according to timc artmell there is no evidence china, the shaolin temple, or chin na were the founders of martial arts nor that chin na was the founder of jiu jitsu. But this point is mute cause things evolve and improve and as people on bullshido say "jiu jitsu became dead after they got their asses kicked early last century by judo which took over". It doesnt matter what the founding systems were what matters is the here and now. So far I have not seen any eagle claw or jjj standing armbar/lock techniques anywhere in mma which has been active for many years.

also sanda is as someone in the other thread I linked to said "arguably kickboxing with throws" and k1 use muay thai and kyakuoshin.

[phoenix-eye]

rofl

ROT = raging orifice of trolldom

idiot

[LifelongLearner]

I'm going to keep this one short. Who is Tim Artmell, and when did he become the authority on the roots of TCMA? And you're seriously citing what the people on Bullshido say as a source? ROT, you just proved my points for me. You state these things as though they are indesputable facts from the highest authorities. You say those observations I made about JJ, Eagle Claw, Shuai Jiao, etc. don't matter because YOU haven't seen them. So another deciding factor on the credibility of MA that have been around for CENTURIES is whether or not you have witnessed them in action? Pathetic. You don't get it, do you? YOU'RE the one with issues of credibility, not TCMA, not Sifu Ross and certainly not someone like Chan Tai San. You're so wrapped up in your point of view, I think you honestly haven't considered the reality of your situation. The bottom line is that YOUR OPINIONS DON'T MATTER. YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE. WET BEHIND THE EARS. GREEN. Get it? Just change your name and go back to Bullshido. You'll find plenty of sympathetic ears and you can all just get together and happily bash all-things-not-BJJ/UFC. Eventually you'll **** them off too and get banned again though, I'm sure.

[ReignOfTerror]

I meant Tim cartmell from shenwu.com go check out his message board hes very pro mma. Also it isnt just bullshido. Mna.tv, sherdog, etc. all pretty much agree on the same thing even ask sifu ross he posts on mma.tv Hell even on this forum everyone thinks mma is superior so it sint just me ok?

[ReignOfTerror]

Thanks for the lesson. I'll keep that in mind. But I guess you're too ignorant to be able to eat your own words about ignorance. All that talk about how we never know what's going to be the new hot style... so we should stick to what we're doing as long as we're doing it well. (I think that's what you meant anyway - I just wrote it up a whole lot nicer for you... no, you don't have to thank me) Wow! Thanks buddy (or is it Sifu?), I think those words come as a revelation to most of us martial arts practitioners... or maybe not.

One moment you're commenting how cross training helped create better fighters... but wait, weren't you advocating for kung fu techniques??

How does this sound to you: you really want to be something special but you're not, so you pick some obscure style of fighting that works perfect in theory but seldom in practice, and then parade around on the forum showing off how enlightened you are, because some outweighed taekwondo guy got elbowed fiercely. I hope you're kidding.

[jimbob]

LifeLong

Stop watering the weed.

ROT - I'll type this slowly because your deficiencies are obvious...


THIS... IS...NOT...THE...THREAD...FOR...THIS...DISCUSSION.


Now tighten your helmet, wipe your chin and go play with your crayons somewhere else.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I can't believe what this thread has dissintergrated into. I am very sad

[ZhangYL]

I want to hear more stories!!

Was Sifu Chan ever displeased at any of you for anything and how did he react? I mean angry over things like picking fights, lack of effort etc etc.

More more stories!!

[Dale Dugas]

ROT, You are nothing but a joke here.

All you do is ***** and moan about various things online.

Leave it, train more and post less on this very cool thread.

People are telling you are ruining it and you just bull doze through it.

You are pondscum buddy and need a serious wake up call to reality.

in Boston,

Dale Dugas

[Vash]

I've seen it posted a few times on this thread that sifu CTS liked karate. Bearing that in mind, I have a few questions:

Are there any particularly interesting stories regarding CTS' interaction with karate folks? Did he draw a distinction between Japanese and Okinawan culture?

Looking forward to hearing more about him, and hopefully to some pruning of the OT posts in this thread.

[cerebus]

I guess no one read what I wrote on the previous page (or they chose to ignore it). Summarized it's this... ROT is yanking your chains and you're letting him! He knows nothing about MA except what he reads on the internet and purposely throws out antagonizing comments just to get responses from you. If you keep scratching the itch, it just gets worse....