Wing Chun and fighting-How to do it?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by PaulH
I like to point out that WSL as I understand always stressed understanding WC principles and concepts behind each technique that he ever demonstrated. He did not like passing on soulless techniques. =)

Knowing something conceptually is what the theoretical non-fighter likes to do. Just knowing the principles and theory doesn't necessarily mean something will work.

Case in point- the umoplata shoulder lock in BJJ and MMA. Based on theory, this should be a great fight finisher. You can crank your oppoenent's shoulder and you can control him while you punch him. In reality, however, it is very rarely able to be used as a finisher, even by the best fighters. However, one wouldn't know this unless it had been tested out many times in competitions and fights.

[PaulH]

I always believe in testing out your understanding of "techniques" in Beimo or trial of skills. =)

[Vajramusti]

Just knowing the principles and theory doesn't necessarily mean something will work.
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Of course not. Good wing chun folks do test and make their adjustments. But not really necessary to covince trolls of anything.

[PaulH]

Joy,

I'm kind of delighted of what KF wrote on this thread. It reminds me of one of my favorite articles that I read many years ago. It's good to be refreshed. =)

http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/pe.../wongbeimo.php

[Vajramusti]

Good article PaulH. I have read it before.Thx.

[KPM]

Ah Terence! Nice of you to jump onto another reply while totally ignoring my previous points! KPM

**All fingers pointing to one moon, all paths leading to one destination, all textbooks pertaining to one subject matter. Nonfighting theoreticians, having no clue as to the moon, the destination, or the subject matter, can only be concerned with the finger, the path, the textbook. These become all important to them because they know nothing else.

---That's were you are wrong. You can still have respect for the textbook and value the textbook and know the textbook thoroughly before you depart from the textbook. And you can always refer back to that textbook for guidance when needed. That's WHY it is the textbook! If you go off with only a half-assed knowledge of the textbook then you may very well be missing out on a lot. KPM

But WCK is a system that has already been "stripped down" many generations ago. It is not nearly as elaborate as other CMA systems.
**Tell us more hearsay theory.

---Hearsay? Do you think WCK is as elaborate as Choy Li Fut? or Hung Gar? or Longfist? Show me another CMA system with fewer forms or techniques/motions. KPM

So before I going tossing anything aside as ineffective, I am going to give it a fair trial and make sure that it is not just me that is the problem. KPM

**Good idea. That "fair trial" is, btw, fighting.

---Have you even paid attention to anything I've said on this thread so far? Are you that obtuse? The "fair trial" is progressive sparring drills. Unless you suggest we all go out and pick fights on Friday night in the parking lot of the local nightclub. KPM

[KPM]

Knifefighter wrote:
These are perfect examples of people taking what works for them and their particular strategies and throwing out the rest. What you end up with is a different flavor on the same thing (i.e. grappling- BJJ, Catch, Sambo, and Judo).

---A different flavor.....a different style....but still passed on to those who come after. Do you recognize BJJ when you see it? Do you recognize Catch when you see it? Do you recognize Sambo when you see it? Could this be because they are emulating their predecessors? Could this be because they are doing things the way they were taught to them by their teachers? I'll ask again.......if everyone just does their own thing, then why do we have distinctions between BJJ & Sambo, or Thai Boxing & Savate? Why isn't there just a generic "grappling" or a generic "kickboxing"? Could this be because they have established techniques and ways of doing things that are recognizable as a "style" or "system"? Could this be because they work within a given framework....one that allows individual expression and development...but an established framework nonetheless? Could this be because there are different "lineages" of grappling or kickboxing? GASP!!! KPM

Keith

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by KPM
---A different flavor.....a different style....but still passed on to those who come after. Do you recognize BJJ when you see it?

The BJJ of today is much different than it was 20 years ago. If it is to remain effective, it will probably be much different 20 years from now than it is today. It is constantly evolving, as should any combat system.

The original BJJ was just someone's individual interpretation of Japanese Judo which was someone's individual interpretation of Japanese Jujitsu.

Modern submission grappling wasn't even around 20 years ago. It is is a blending of catch and BJJ and Sambo. There are also a variety of individual flavors of submission grappling being developed, which will probably be the new styles of tomorrow.

Today's MMA is a mixture of boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, and wrestling, but is different than each of those. It also didn't exist in its current incarnation 20 years ago.

The Dog Brothers have taken the Filipino stick fighting arts, added their own interpretations and come up with a "new" style.

Styles that stick with the old "traditional" dogma become stagnant and are doomed to be bypassed by those that evolve and become new styles themselves.