Bung Bo apps

[German Bai Lung]

Hua Lin: its one move.

WhiteMonkey: I agree with Mantis Cool on that. He described it very good. I often teach that move without blocking, because in move two (the Tong Long Bou Sin - Mantis Catches Cicada) you catch the opponents arm and follow him while he was retreating. Not necessarly a new block is to make, but of course could.
The palm strike must be powerful and main target is the chest. But also you could attack the face.
It´s not only a transitional move!!! It´s a full move and must be performed like one (in both roads!).

So what is your application for the three techniques after Ba Wong Ching Haak (Double grabbing hand in Ma Bo)?
I mean:

Dang San Bo - Diu Sau followed by Pek Cheui (Bow Stance with Mantis Hand and Chop)
Dang San Bo - Au Lau Choi (Hook Grapple Pluck)
Step - Kwa Fu Bo - Siu Fan Che Cheui (Step in Tiger Riding Stance - Little Turning Wheel Punch)

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

sayloc
I don't train in Pong Lai which is why I defer to yu shan or 18elders to explain what they have. I have seen some of it though on video and in person. Believe it or not we get along fine offline. They have multiple lineages but I believe they do the 7 Star version.

I think the Big Mantis thread you refer to was the analysis of it as a version of Bung Bo (Mantis108 and Tainan Mantis).

GBL
Thanks. Counting moves confuses me. There doesn't seem to be any standard. At a Bagua seminar in China the teacher's idea of a move was a long (very long) string of movements. To others it's one block or one punch.

I believe WL Bung Bo is different after the double grabbing hands so the only ones that can comment on that are yu shan and 18elders.

I'm working on getting Big Mantis and Bung Bo so I'll have more input later.

[shirkers1]

By the way I wasn't implying that what I said before was the only way. Lately that's how I've been playing it, because I like the stickiness of attaching to the limb and striking with the same hand. I would rather punch then do a cutting palm strike to a hard target like the head or chest but that's what the form calls for so I see it played both ways.

[yu shan]

Appreciate this thread, Beng Bu is an awesome form. IMO, a person could easily spend years on getting all the benefits BB has to offer. Also thanks for asking my opinion/view on this move in BB. I totally agree with MantisCool with his explanation on move #3. I might add, this block we do with our left (followed by attack to chest) we do as a quick parry combined with the recoil stomp going after the opposing force.. kind of fast if ya know what I mean. This whole road is done quickly, JMO. Look forward to hearing more about BB. And yes ours is 7*, but has Master Shr`s flavor. If Tainan Mantis is out there, I really would like to know who taught this form to your Shifu, and laiyang or yantai? BTW, HLL I`m brushing off the moth balls with Big Mantis, this form is toooo nice not to share, plus I`ll be the only kid on the block who knows it. New years resolution... going to put more soft warm fuzzies in my posting.

MantisCool

Thoughts and Prayers to you Sir and your countrymen.

[Young Mantis]

Originally posted by GermanMantis
Hi Sayloc,

Baat Wong Ching Haak or Seung Fung Sau (Double-grabbing Hand) is the following technique, when you go back in horse-riding stance.

GBL and GM,

In the WHF lineage, the two instances of "ma bo seung fung sao" have different names. "Baa Wong Chang Haak" is the name of the second of the two which is #16 in the WHF Bung Bo book. The first one, #10, which follows the "bui hou chui bo" technique is known as "suen sao heen yeurng" - "conveniently capturing the sheep".

The names are different because the action leading up to them are different. In the first one, after the low back kick, you are stepping down from the kick and so you use that momentum to pull the person in hence the "suen sao" - conveniently. In the second, you are stepping back from a right bow stance. This is a power move requiring you to pull the person forward as you step back. The names give a lot as to the intention and flavor of the movements even though they individually make look the same.

YM

[German Bai Lung]

Young Mantis: thanks for that!

Now if I remember right, Sifu Lee mentioned the name in a talk about Sap Baat Sau and Yi Lou Jaak Yiu. He explains the difference between the move in Yun Hau Bo and Ma Bo.
He also mentioned the two different names "Baak Yun Ching Haak" and "Ba Wong Ching Haak".
I automatically take the name for the move in the Bang Bo! Thank you once more for the clarification.
Do you got the chinese characters for the right name?
"suen sao heen yeurng"?

[monkeyfoot]

Right counter intercepting hand and Left counter intercepting hand.

This is the quick hand movements done 2 moves before the first panther/hand fanning at the end of bung bo.

The application is that the opponents right punch comes in and is hooked out of the air with the defenders right hand - and inwards twist is applied to the wrist and the left hand is used to break the opponents wrist.
The same can be done but with opposite hands if a left punch is thrown at you.

Anybody know any other applications to this?

Craig

[mantis108]

Tainan showed me his version of Bengbu which is quite similar to the HK 7 Star version otherwise known as Yantai Bengbu or Da Bengbu. But the 2 men of that is definitely different. Let's just call that Ponglai version Bengbu. It is quite different from CCK TCPM version also. In fact, the 2 men versions are completely different. So the Zuo Cha Zhang (left inserting palm) applications are different accordingly. Ponglai's version can actually use to attack the throat if we follow the form of Ponglai. It seems to me that most of us here are just a ted more polite by suggesting just attacking the chest or face. But that's understandablely practice protocol. Of course to make this throat attack effective, the hand formation (still a palm) would be a little different. Now, I stress that this is by no means "hidden" application. It is simply a case of change certain details of the move so that it would be a fight ender. This is what Hui Shi (empty full) or Bian Hua of the move means in Mantis. BTW, I showed that hand formation to Tainan when he visited me. Anyway, it's a very cool/cruel move.

Mantis108

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

yu shan
Don't be getting too mushy on us now.

[MantisCool]

Thank you yu shan Shifu!

We have 2 sadness. One is the death of so many people and the other is, No countdown for New Year Eve! Our Government is too sad to validate a countdown and all permit for fireworks display are revoked. Instead, we are told to recite prayers.

[yu shan]

Understood MantisCool...understood! I will share this with you. This catastrophic accurance has affected and moved all of us! It is overwhelming to say the least.

M108

I hear you about this strike going to the throat, guess I was being nice. So the Bengbu Tainan demonstrated was Yantai? Can you give us info on why it was called (maybe) Da Bengbu? That means Big Mantis. And yes, the slight change in details can bring it to a fight ender.

HLL

You know I`ll slip up... I will keep my eyes on the horizon, there is so much information here... pure gold!

[German Bai Lung]

Quote:
"Dang San Bo - Diu Sau followed by Pek Cheui (Bow Stance with Mantis Hand and Chop)
Dang San Bo - Au Lau Choi (Hook Grapple Pluck)
Step - Kwa Fu Bo - Siu Fan Che Cheui (Step in Tiger Riding Stance - Little Turning Wheel Punch)"

Appl.:
1.: Block ´n Grap an incoming Attack, counter at Ellbow or shoulder or Head/Neck
2.: The Defense or a new Attack is countered with Hook - Grapple - Pluck
3.: If Au Lau Choi is blocked, grab this Block and step in with a nice Uppercut to the lever or short - rips. At the same time you can apply a kick to the groin.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

I've seen Bung Bo performed with different hands in the section with th back kick. The hands circle and end in mantis hooks while executing the kick. Can anyone identify with branch does this?

It actually looks a little bit like beginning of Little Mantis but the left hands extends out in a hook.

[mantis108]

Hi Yu Shan,

Being nice is always a good thing.

The Yantai Bengbu is also known as the Da Bengbu (Large Crash and Fill) because of the frequent use of Dengshan Shi (hill climbing stance). Because of this there is an air of Changquan (long fist). Since this version is quite popular in Yantai (some believe that Bengbu was first introduced in Yantai) , it is also known as Yantai Bengbu because of where it first popularized.

Laiyang Bengbu on the other hand has virtually no Dengshan Shi. It uses mainly Xiao Shi or Xiao Deng Shan Shi (little hill climbing stance). BTW, I think in older Quanpu this Xiao Shi is also known as Shi Ji Bu (Charater Ten step). Laiyang Bengbu is quite consistant with the rest of the Classical Tanglang of Liang Xuexiang. Elements of Bazhou can be found in this version. The curious thing about this is that the first road is almost identical to the first road of Meihwa Lu. Laiyang Bengbu is said to have kept in Laiyang where Liang Xuexiang was teaching until lately some of Jiang Hualong - Song Zide's descendents started teaching in Qingdao, Shandong.

The Ponglai version is in my mind Yantai Bengbu. Yet, the flavor is very unique. The flavor is consistant with the Mimen Lanjie that Tainan showed me. It has Sanhui Jiuhuan (3 Returns and 9 Rotations), Pai Da and Fajing (often one ich punch type) that pack quite an omph. I think this is truely a gem from Shrfu Shr Zheng Zhong.

The turn at the end of first road in Ponglai version and the CCK TCPM version is different. Ponglai version do this as a counter to opponent trying to dodge pass you to get your back. It uses one of the 8 shorts buttocks elbow/hip check. CCK TCPM do this similar to Laiyang Bengbu that you stick to the opponent's hand as he passes and grabs your hair from behind. You execute an elbow lock/armbar while pulling him down and towards you (Laiyang verison is much low while CCK TCPM is a bit higher in horse stance). It doesn't use the Buttocks elbow in this case. Ponglai version has an arm drag instead of the armbar. Both ways are fine and has it own place since both are base on the same principle of neutralize and attack at the same time. Of course, the following counters would make the whole thing go wild. That's where the fun begins.

Hi Wolfen

I think there are plenty of Meihwa people in Laiyang.

Hualin,

Sorry, I have not seen that interpretaton. So.... In all honesty, it sounds like a Wushu movie fu to me. May be Team EXtreme Mantis (TEM). [sorry can't help but poke fun at it.]

Warm regards

Mantis108

[sayloc]

108

you should write a book. Let me know when you do I am buying

Gathering information like that had to have taken much time and effort. Thanks for sharing with the strangers on the forum.

Informatin like this in like gold.