Bung Bo apps

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

mantis108
The version I described is on a tape that a friend made for me. It's from a training VCD and since I don't read or speak Chinese I can't tell the branch or the teacher.

I'll search the net and see if I can recognize him on any VCDs. I like that version and was wondering about the application difference.

Just ran and checked the video and luckily at the beginning there is some english. Funny thing though it says Qi Xing Tang Lang. It starts out with a dragon head logo then shows a guy in white in a field. When the instruction starts he's inside with an outdoor backdrop.

[yu shan]

Hui Laoshi

The one thing I notice most about Shr ZhengZong`s Bengbu and all the others I have seen.. is truly the Fajing energy! I think this is what makes a differance. Also, his partnered form is unique and distinct. I`m lucky to have seen him play Bengbu two-person in differant ways. Plus, just when you think the partnered form teaches you the universe, he has a whole new way at looking at it. Master Shr is a true master of applications in my book. Question, deng shan shi, can this be translated to Jade Ring stance? And thank you for reminding about the buttocks/hips check. There is so much to this form.

[German Bai Lung]

deng shan shi is hill climbing stance or Dang san Bo in cantonese.

Jade Ring is Ru or Yu Huan Shi in cantonese Yap Wan Bo!

See also the newest MQ! (seems to be that this Magazin becoming more and more indispensable!)

[yu shan]

GBL

Just received my order of all past issues of the quarterly. Talking about a dynamite Christmas present!!! I have some reading to do. Yu Huan Shi... thanks!

My 18 Elders form is 7* with dengshan shi stances. I have recently seen this form played pretty darn close to what I have, but the dengshan shi is all replaced by Yu Huan Shi. Does this make it Meiwua?

[mantis108]

Hi Sayloc,

Thank you for the kind words and support. I truely appreciate that. Honestly, I have a lot of help from a lot of high calibur practitioners of our beloved art. So, I don't think I can claim any experties on the material. I believe that Ilya Profatilov, Mike Martello, and Kevin Brazier are currently working on some book projects. I think these are certianly noteable material soon to be released. As for myself, I would love to come up with something in the future. Right now I think having the oppotunity to share with the public is great especially in veiw of what is happening with our world these days. If by sharing our little good fortune and making the world just a little bit nicer and friendlier, I think we won't regret that we have lived in such trying time. Our lives are still somewhat meaningful while much of what is happening in the world is pretty senseless.

Hi Hualin,

The move you described is from an actual training video?! I really don't know what to say, my friend except that buyers beware. I honestly could not see how the app in question would work except perhaps in a pre arranged sequence. I guess I will give it benefit of the doubt until I can see it. I don't mean to offend your friend nor the producer of the video. But I am a skeptic in this case.

Hi Yu Shan,

Glad you have received all the back issue. I would love to hear your feed back as you go through them.

I generally agree with GBL on the traslations. However, in Classical Tanglang terminology, Yu Huan Shi (Jade Ring Stance) doesn't exist. It is Yu Huan Shou or Yu Huan Bu. It basically is a transition from right Xiao Shi - Zuo Pan Shi - left Xiao Shi. The name Yu Huan IMHO is attributed to a famous Tang dynasty emperor's consort Yang Yu Huan. The intricate footwork of Yu Huan Bu describes the way the fair lady moves gracefully and delicately. There is also a famous Peking opera play about the drunken frolic of the "Noble Consort ". If you look at the mechanics of Yu Huan Bu closely, it does remarkably resemble a lady or a drunkard's movement. BTW, Ru Huan (enter the ring) is a 7 Stars terminology as far as I am aware.

Deng Shan shi (hill climbing/hiking stance) definitely describes a very somber and strong stance. In a way, you could say the Deng Shan Bu (Gang) and Yu Huan Bu (Rou) footwork are like Yin Yang.

Hope this answers your question.

Mantis108

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

I think the training VCD is from Master Rui-ting Hou (http://www.wushumedia.com/vcd.asp?code=2&ID=QXL01 ).

Guess it's a modern Wushu version.

Sample here:

opening

kick

[mantis108]

Thanks for going to all that trouble for the clips. I really appreciate it.

Hou Rui Ting is quite famous and respected in the Mainland Mantis community. He also professed to know the forms listed in the Shaolin Authentics. I think he used to be on the Mainland Mantis forum as well. So he's quite approachable.

I watched the kick part. My impression is that isn't really a mantis hook hands while performing the kick. His hands did flick and somewhat look turned though (some type of Fajing IMHO because it was just a fraction of a second). I can't said his interpretation of the form is my cup of tea; nevertheless, it is enjoyable. Frankly, these days I am more concerned about how the apps are like rather than how impressive the performance of the forms by the stylist. So seeing clips like these often don't provide a good picture of how well does the stylist fair. I do think that this type of performance certainly will do fairly well in form competitions. This is by no mean suggest that this is Wushu although the way the stances are held would not likely render him or his students in serious disadvantage against modern Wushu stylists in form competitions.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[Young Mantis]

Originally posted by German Bai Lung
deng shan shi is hill climbing stance or Dang san Bo in cantonese.

Jade Ring is Ru or Yu Huan Shi in cantonese Yap Wan Bo!

See also the newest MQ! (seems to be that this Magazin becoming more and more indispensable!)

GBL,

Actually, the Cantonese for Jade Ring would be "Yook Wan". HK 7* does not use this term as Mantis108 points out. We use "Yup Wan" which Mantis108 translates as "enter the ring". Personally, I don't believe the "Wan" character is used as a noun - ring. I think it is an adverb so I translate it as "round entering stance" which I think is very fitting for the way we use this step to enter our opponents space and trap the leg for a takedown.

I believe that the Jade Ring and Round Entering stances are the same and that the name difference most likely occurred because of an error in transcribing oral transmission. In Mandarin, they sound almost identical. Personally, Round Entering makes more sense in physically describing the action and usage of the stance than Jade Ring without having to grasp at other possible influences for the name but maybe someone has some historical documents to prove either.

YM

[MantisCool]

I think YM is correct. We called the stance as "Yup Wan" or
".... entering stance". I think it is a preposition.

It is used as a squatting stance and normaly attack the lower half of the opponent where the defence is lower or maybe when the opponent also lowered down.

[Young Mantis]

Hi Mantiscool,

Funny you should call it a squatting stance. We usually refer to it as the kneeling stance.

YM

[MantisCool]

Hi! Young Mantis

I dont know the exact wordings but I think kneeling is not very correct either! Maybe, it is half squat and half kneel!

MC

[flem]

yu shan/18 elders,

I am confused. If all traditional mantis (or I should say mantis that does not have the influence of other styles) are taught as two-person sets, then how can there be any confusion over apps? Also, I noticed somewhere in this thread one of you suggested that Master Shr has additional apps for certain moves, I don't understand how that can be. Now I usually seem to come across as an ass, and I don''t mean to. If there is more than one app to a two person form, what's the "real" way. Is there a "real" way. Also, do you learn alternate app's for the same movement in different forms? Like in wl some moves are repeated throughout the curriculum.

[mantisben]

Originally posted by Hua Lin Laoshi
...
At the end of the first run you turn and execute a right kick behind the left leg. First off, anyone have a name for this kick?

I've heard it called the "Leg-Sprouting" kick in, I think it was, Lee Kam Wing's 2nd book.

[mantisben]

Originally posted by WhiteMonkey
Thanks shirkers1, but thats not the move, thats move #2 .

The move after that with the left palm strike,#3, with the hoping step, before move #4, the forward right hand punch?

How do you use it ?

Is it a full move or just a transitional move?

What is your target when used?

Why the step?

One application I have used is where the palm-heel is used to attack the nose or the eye, and follow QUICKLY with the next movement in the form, which is a right lunge-punch whether the palm strike was blocked or not.

Or, the left-palm can be used to forcefully "mush" your opponents head back, to create some distance between your fist and his head (and distract), and strike QUICKLY with the next movement in the form, the right straight punch.

In the applications listed above, the left palm strike is more of a "fake" or "distraction" than a show-stopper. Kind of like a western boxer's "one-two" punch, with the "one" being the left palm strike, and the "two" being the right straight punch. Also, by "fake", I don't mean it isn't supposed to hit it's target hard, just that it isn't the MAIN strike in the combination your throwing. In Bung-Bo (HK 7*), you still have (potentially) 2 straight punches, one knee strike, 1 elbow strike, and a back-fist to throw. But to respond to your question, I'll only speak on movements #3 (palm strike) and #4 (straight/lunge punch).

I'd like to add that using this combination as listed above, you could either throw the left palm strike with the left foot forward, then "lunge" forward with the right leg as you throw the right lunge-punch (just like the form), or after the left palm strike use the left "Monkey Step" (left forward shuffle) while you throw the right straight punch, OR use no step AT ALL when throwing the left palm strike and the right straight punch.

In my opinion, the main thing with these two movements in Bung Bo, used as listed above, is that the palm strike and fist strike are thrown out consecutively. Two strikes in succession, as opposed to the "You strike then I block, then I strike and you block, then you strike then I block...". Not that there is anything wrong with that approach to this particular technique. In the HK 7* 2-Man version of this form, it is just like that (you strike then I block...). Some PM techniques can't be thrown consecutively like this one, although I can't think of any right now.

Of course, the form should be done the way you learned it. The apps can be experimented with a little more than the forms.

Other apps posted by mantids on this thread I agree with.

P.S.: I can't BELIEVE I had soo much of nuthin to say about these two movements.

[German Bai Lung]

Hi Young Mantis,

you are right. I don´t figured it out exactly enough, so it was misunderstandable. Good you cleared that.

Mantisben:
Like I mentioned it before, the kick is called in Cantonese "Bui Tek Ma"
(bei ti ma).
The sprouting kick is called "Jau Toi" (jiu tui in Mandarin) and is a kind of sweep. See Bang Bo the second last road, right before the jump with the eye plucking hand movement!