International Webcast Today 10am PST: The Deadly Crisis in International Relations

[MonkeyBoy]

Originally posted by SimonM
A I'd like to quote Jello Biafra

"You say you'll fight to the death to save the stupid flag
If you want a bananna republic that bad
Then YOU go move to one."

I hear that Burma doesn't like political dissent too much, Monkey Boy why don't YOU move there.

Quoting others is a weak mans game, not as weak as name calling but close and just as desperate.

Can't forum members get LaRouches opinion for if they want?

All you demonstrate by by posting someone elses opinion is your own inability for original thought ?

All you demonstrate by insulting others and not being able to handle it back is your own immaturity.

[FuXnDajenariht]

"Newb, you are very unhappy with the USA, please leave...."

and your saying this is original?? hmm i haven't heard that before....

[Mr Punch]

Like to see that 2005's getting off to a good start with scaremongering guaranteed to keep whoever the **** you don't like near the corridors of power near the corridors of power.

Fear breed fear.

Hate breeds hate.

When/if the collapse does come it will be huge, it will come from a small source which will have been predicted quietly for a very long time and no-one will have done anything about... like 9-11 only ****ing huge, and I suspect an environmental meltdown is more likely than terrorists.

We are already in the beginnings of the meltdown with an oversized population and the ideal being overuse and waste and the planet already unable to sustain growth at this rate. This is not scaremongering. This is the fact that hundreds of economists have been talking about quietly for years and nobody has done/is doing anything about.

To me this is not scary, so it is not scaremongering. It is something I am doing every little thing in my personal realm of wude to avoid. Self defence for the next generation: eg, you drive a 2-litre car you are their enemy.

Anyway, must go, SUV tyres don't stab themselves you know!

[Vash]

Bah. If my enemies come, I shall fight them. Either they shall die at the tip of my sword, or I at theirs.

Barring that, I'm goin' to keep on keepin' on.

[scotty1]

Monkeyboy, comments like 'love it or leave it' are obstructive to the discussion. If I thought my country was going down the pan, I would try to fix it, not f*ck off to another country i thought was better and leave it to the dogs.

Your first post was insulting towards Newb, so don't pulling the holier than thou BS now.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I come from a generation that responded to "love it or leave it" with "change it or lose it".. That is the issue for Americans, its broke and needs fixing, not abandoning.. Sure, the wealthy conservatives would love for dissenters and free-thinkers to leave, they shrink from truth and fear loss of power. There is a great gulf between the American ideal and the "federal agenda".. and, yes, American consumerism is looting the worlds resources and labor to elevate their elitist lifestyle.. if the US deported all illegal aliens, its own people might have to get its hands dirty doing the menial tasks it feels is beneath its position..

Look at the useless products and services we, as a consuming public, have been sold.. its truly frightening. Our wealth flows into the pockets of snake-oil salesmen at a numbing pace. The economists enslave the least capable of the society with revolving credit, interest rates for mortages that triple the cost of a home (the cost of interest to buy a 100k auto vs a 100k house).. if you have money it replicates itself in the current society, if have none it will soon be less than none.. The US and most other flourishing economies are built on backs of those least able to support it.. fairness is a dust covered concept.

The most basic of services, health-care, is an abhorent joke in the US.. the "inalienable rights" of LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.. are rights that must be purchased.. How about a government that would assert that drugs from Canada (originally made in the US) might be unsafe, so.. you must spend much more money here and, if you can't afford the drugs, none is better than Canadian.. FIX IT, don't abandon it..

The wealthy and elite will drive such a wedge between the "haves and have nots" that revolution will become a viable alternative.. the same cheap labor imported to support lavish lifestyles will someday wrench that lifestyle from their lily-white hands..

"Love it or leave it", hell no.. i'm for fixing it..

Be well...

[mickey]

Greetings,

To respond to NewB's first post:

WE DO NOT HAVE A REPUBLIC ANY MORE. WE HAVE LOST IT A LONG TIME AGO.

That which you say in going to happen has already happened and is STILL happening.

The Patriot Act was a death blow to the Constitution of the United States.

Due to the need to get every death fearing American on some type of drug, we have become a nation of zombies, much to the horror of the international community who, through their educational system, know more about our government than we do. They value what we have and they are upset with us because we are allowing it and our freedoms to slip away.

The typical American, today, is an unconscious American.

mickey

[Merryprankster]

Both Mortal and Newb are wrong IMO, with the exception of keying in on our expanding debt as a serious problem (it is).

Newb, your comments are interesting, but look largely like a cut and paste hack job. The paragraphs are long and difficult to read.

As to substance, you present a lot of data, some of it correlated, some of it not, but much of it unrelated in a causal sense. Isolated facts do not make a case. Rather, it is the analysis of those facts in context that makes the case. I've found nothing in your posts other than assertions. I'm more interested in the thinking behind them. For example, you state that once the United States was the largest producing nation on the planet, and now we are the largest consumers. You clearly think this is a bad thing. When people here have dismissed that, you responded, "Can you deny that this is true?" My response is simple - So What? What does this matter? Not in a pejoritive way, but in a "I don't understand what you think this means way."

Also, to FuXnDajenariht - I argued in another thread that mistreatment of detainees/prisoners was not a widespread, systemic problem in the miltary. Newer evidence shows I was wrong. The recent FBI report on GITMO and the hearing on Gonzalez suggests a systemic problem. This is important and I hope the DoD gets on it quickly.

[Newb]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
Greetings..



The most basic of services, health-care, is an abhorent joke in the US.. the "inalienable rights" of LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.. are rights that must be purchased.. How about a government that would assert that drugs from Canada (originally made in the US) might be unsafe, so.. you must spend much more money here and, if you can't afford the drugs, none is better than Canadian.. FIX IT, don't abandon it..

The wealthy and elite will drive such a wedge between the "haves and have nots" that revolution will become a viable alternative.. the same cheap labor imported to support lavish lifestyles will someday wrench that lifestyle from their lily-white hands..

"Love it or leave it", hell no.. i'm for fixing it..

Be well...

I wanted to make a quick but relevent point clearer. Health care is a great way to measure the *real* standard of living of a population, and their general safety. Under the policies of Franklin Delano Roosevelt we had a system called the "Hill-Burton Act" of 1944. It was a simple 7 page legislature that simply stated every single citizen of the USA will get health care even if they personally cannot afford it. For every 1000 people in an area, we will have 7 hospital beds, adequate doctors, nurses, and medicine. We will provide *preventive* health care so we stop the cancer before it spreads. Preventive health care costs TONS less than the type of HMO system we have now, which simply does not work. The states put aside a certain amount of money each year, and so did the fed govt. If you could not afford the health care, the state would pay for it. If the state can't afford it, the Fed Govt. would pay for it.



This system worked until 1971 when it was distroyed by the financial bankers who argued 'it costs too much'. They brought in what was called 'Shareholder value'. Shareholder Value freaks like Supreme Court Chief Justice Antonin Scalia argue that the right of a stock holder in a hospital to get a profit back on his stock, is more important than the patient who needs treatment. If it costs too much for treatment, they don't get it. This folks, is unAmerican and inhumane.



Todays HMO system costs are through the roof partially because of the TONS of paperwork that goes back and fourth. My Girlfriend was a nurse and she told me what she did most of the day was fill out page after page of paperwork. She would have to spend more time dealing with paperwork, than she would get time to deal with the patients. If anyone is in the medical industry, I'd love to hear your input. I heard figures of over 20% of the money spent on health care is simply paperwork that goes back and fourth.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by MonkeyBoy
Quoting others is a weak mans game, not as weak as name calling but close and just as desperate.

Can't forum members get LaRouches opinion for if they want?

All you demonstrate by by posting someone elses opinion is your own inability for original thought ?

All you demonstrate by insulting others and not being able to handle it back is your own immaturity.

Which was exactly my point in referring the suggestion to leave the USA to Monkey Boy as opposed to Newb. Newb - just as Monkey Boy - believes himself to be a patriot. Why then should he leave?

To Monkey Boy: Quotes are used all the time in schools of higher learning to signify the fact that another individual prior to yourself expressed the statement you are making. It is considered the academically polite thing to do. In addition an individual may have expressed a point succinctly and eloquently. This deserves some credit if those words are then used. How is this weak?

If you want my own opinion in my own words though I will gladly share it.

Patriotism is not defined by who waves the biggest flag but by who does the most to improve the lot of their people. Recognizing that all people are one and thus that the crimes committed against one people harm all peoples is a sign of increased social maturity. In stating that sweatshop labour harms the USA Newb is thus demonstrating social maturity. This is something that the "love it or leave it" crowd tends to entirely lack.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Originally posted by Merryprankster

Also, to FuXnDajenariht - I argued in another thread that mistreatment of detainees/prisoners was not a widespread, systemic problem in the miltary. Newer evidence shows I was wrong. The recent FBI report on GITMO and the hearing on Gonzalez suggests a systemic problem. This is important and I hope the DoD gets on it quickly.

told ya bro...



in this case though, being wrong would of been a good thing...

[FuXnDajenariht]

Originally posted by SimonM

Patriotism is not defined by who waves the biggest flag but by who does the most to improve the lot of their people. Recognizing that all people are one and thus that the crimes committed against one people harm all peoples is a sign of increased social maturity. In stating that sweatshop labour harms the USA Newb is thus demonstrating social maturity. This is something that the "love it or leave it" crowd tends to entirely lack.

right on dude! what you said....


you da dude.... to qoute a Xebbyism

[Ray Pina]

Newb, I find your comments interesting and would like to subscribe to your news letter.

If $hit does down, I'd be interested in running your army