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Thread: For those who do Qi Shou

  1. #31
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    Jan 1970
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    Hello, again E.M.

    Just a quick response here about your question concerning jing. Jing and qi (chi) are not the same by any means. Chi is an energy which all humans have from the time that they are born and wanes as we get older. You can revive and increase chi with certain excercises and breathing control. You can acquire chi quickly with these excercises or slowly through just your basic martial arts practice over the years. I practice quigong in the mornings which specifically target acquiring more chi energy. You don't have to be in martial arts to acquire and use chi in your personal well being.

    Jing is the million dollar word for the day. Jing is the internal concept of using the body and specific movements to generate tremendous power without using more muscular strength. Jing is how one can do the smallest movement... almost undetectable and generate enough power to knock the wind out of an opponent. Jing is what internal martial artists focus on. For example, Tai Chi is not just focusing on Chi energy like most people assume... it is focusing on the exacting movements combining all parts of the body into the perfect synchronization to generate the bone breaking power in the perfect punch or in a particular technique. The more in sync the body is in doing say a punch, the stronger the punch. The body is totally relaxed and creates power above and beyond the external styles. Eight Step has great external techniques, but the internal work is really the core. Hsing I, Baqua and Taijiquan are basically wrapped with the external techniques of Eight Step Mantis. This is why Eight Step is different than the other mantis styles. This is also why I consider my left hand and my right hand on equal terms. There is no physical strength needed to increase to get the power. In fact, because relaxation and fluidity in the movement is necessary to effectively use jing, my left hand is usually stronger when striking. This is because it is naturally more limber than my dominant right hand.

    Sure you can learn ba bu tang lang quan and be great using the techniques in it, but if you want to master it and be unstoppable, you have to look inside to the internal soft side. As one ages, the external or hard style of martial arts just won't get it... the body becomes weaker and more fragile in a way. Internal is what allows a master to strike harder and faster than a young man maybe even 40 or more years his junior. I knowyou have heard the old saying "don't mess with old man kung fu". This is exactly why. By the time a martial artist ages, his internal side should be more predominant if he practiced correctly. He is deadly at that point for sure. (I should tell you later of a story from my sifu's time as a youth, practicing martial arts and his encounter with an elderly man... a smoker at that! It defines this ability with a nice illustration)

    Anyway, this is a quick explanation of the difference. If you are patient, my sifu, John Chang is writing a book on the concepts and practice of jing, which we hope to get published. He is probably the only person who has studied this and understands it to a point that he can specifically tell one how to practice jing and incorporate it into one's art. There are no "secret" methods, flowery yet nebulous explanations. It is straight forward and direct and understandable for everyone. From books written a hundred years ago, the concept is the same. Interesting stuff. Great question, E.M.. Take care and train safe.

    Bokfu
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    Bokfu

    I think you may be confusing Jing and Fa jing.

    Jing is one of the three treasures . Jing,Chi and Shen. Essence, energy and spirit. Mainly dealing With Qigong.

    "Fajin" or "Fajing" I believe is expressing the energy (not necassarily Chi) or power in your martial application.

    There is no I can explain this over the net. That is the best I can do for now. I could be wrong

    Try not to be to hard on me

  3. #33
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    Vancouver, B.C. Canada
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    Smile

    Hi Earth Dragon,

    Looks like you BTL has replied to your request already. I am sure you will get a response soon.

    Hi Yu Shan,

    Regarding the flavor, that's a very good question. Personally, I don't think that a different way of doing things essentially changes the "history". I am of the opinion that the Qishou was from the Meihwa side of things. There is one unmistakeable key which is the short range mechanics of the greater Meihwa lines meaning there is no chambering of the hands. I believe this is what Taiji Shou (Grand Ultimate Hands) really means in the old Quanpu. The way the form is designed, which is remarkably similar to Luanjie's logic, you would not need to chamber the hands at all. So ....

    Warm regards

    Mantis108
    Contraria Sunt Complementa

    對敵交手歌訣

    凡立勢不可站定。凡交手須是要走。千着萬着﹐走為上着﹐進為高着﹐閃賺騰挪為
    妙着。


    CCK TCPM in Yellowknife

    TJPM Forum

  4. #34
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    Jan 1970
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    San Jose, CA, USA
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    Sayloc,
    You are right on the jing issue... my fault for just referring to fa jing as just jing. I should be more clear in the "jing" I am speaking of. I just have a bad habit of saying jing instead of fa jing. The "jing" I was referring is not the jing, chi, and shen. Thanks for pointing that out where I can clarify for Electric Mantis.
    So, Electric Mantis, I was referring to fa jing for use in application and not the basic energy element in the body which could be transferred to chi, which I think you may have been referring to in your last post. I hope I did not confuse you any more than necessary! LOL.

    Bokfu
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin

  5. #35
    Bok Fu great post,

    mantis 108,

    thanks, actually Steve called me today but thier is an issue with translation that we need your help with. Steve will be calling you, sorry back to the topic
    KUNG FU USA
    www.eightstepkungfu.com
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  6. #36
    Bok-Fu
    Thanks again for the reply and the clarification. It sounds like you focus a lot on Fa jing. No focus on the energy jing? Just wonder 'cause I was reading the KFM's article on chi and breathing. Do you consider jing, chi, and shen unimportant in the 8 step mantis practice and technique? Sorry to ask so many questions. I should also post this in another area, I think. I am getting off of the original thread . I have other questions, but I may just send you an e-mails. Is your e-mail address lienchuandao@hotmail.com?

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    San Jose, CA, USA
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    Thanks, Earth Dragon...


    Electric Mantis,

    I don't consider jing, chi, shen unimportant... but I don't really push hard to advance too much in these. I know that chi is important in martial arts, but it won't hinder a persons abilities in too many areas if he has not developed chi. On the other hand, if a person does not try to understand and develop fa jing, he will be held back in the future. I would rather take a punch from an expert in chi before I would take a punch from an expert in fa jing. (On the same note; a person can develop chi by practicing fa jing, but practicing chi won't develop fa jing.)

    I do know that chi energy can be developed to actually do damage, so I am not discounting that. It is just that there are probably only a few that can control and use that energy properly. I do believe that the breathing excercises in practicing the formation of chi is very good and of course that would help out tremendously with martial arts. Breathing and its control is part of a base in martial arts one must develop.

    So, I am a believer in Chi and its capabilities, but I prefer to let it develop naturally. Every morning, I work on a quigong routing that is supposed to increase my chi, so I believe in it enough to take 20 minutes every morning and devote it to this. This is my personal opinion for my own use... so I hope no one takes this as a negative against practicing the development of chi.

    As far as e-mail... I am looking forward to it. The address that you have is correct.

    Bokfu
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin

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