Typical WC?

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Pretty much everybody assumed these guys were not very experienced.

It's not an assumption. The title page clearly says "New Kung Fu Player Competetion".

In these videos, you see "glaring weaknesses of WC punching techniques." I see people who are ill prepared to spar. In other words, you are blaming the style and its philosophy. While I am saying that the proper progression of training has not been adhered to, so everything collapses under pressure.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Matrix
While I am saying that the proper progression of training has not been adhered to, so everything collapses under pressure.

Well, I'm always open to changing my mind. The minute someone can show WC being used successfully and skillfully in this type of environment, I will do that. Maybe Victor's videos will show this. Hovever, until presented with contrary evidence, my opinion will be based on what I have seen and experienced so far.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Hovever, until presented with contrary evidence, my opinion will be based on what I have seen and experienced so far.

Fair enough. However, personally I feel no need to convince anyone of anything. I come here just to discuss ideas and concepts. I'm not looking for converts to my way of thinking.

[hunt1]

Knifefighter would you consider the views of Jeff Neal,the head of the Carlson Gracie team or Carlsons opinion on the subject of any value or worth? They are currently training their vale tudo fighters with wing chun for the stand up skills.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by hunt1
Knifefighter would you consider the views of Jeff Neal,the head of the Carlson Gracie team or Carlsons opinion on the subject of any value or worth? They are currently training their vale tudo fighters with wing chun for the stand up skills.

I wasn't aware that Carlson's team was using WC. How long have they been doing that?

In answer to your question, I'm not interested in their "views", but what they can use. If Carlson's team is using WC for thier standup training, then their MMA events will show whether or not these WC techniques can or cannot be used successfully. As the saying goes "the proof will be in the pudding". Until then, I remain skeptical.

My prediction is that the only WC technques that Carlson's team will possibly be able to use successfully will be an outside pak sao followed by a series of chain punches, all of which will be heavily supplemented by boxing and Muay Thai.

[rogue]

Here's a link from a search on Carlson Gracie and Wing Chun .

[Stevo]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
I wasn't aware that Carlson's team was using WC. How long have they been doing that?

In answer to your question, I'm not interested in their "views", but what they can use. If Carlson's team is using WC for thier standup training, then their MMA events will show whether or not these WC techniques can or cannot be used successfully. As the saying goes "the proof will be in the pudding". Until then, I remain skeptical.

My prediction is that the only WC technques that Carlson's team will possibly be able to use successfully will be an outside pak sao followed by a series of chain punches, all of which will be heavily supplemented by boxing and Muay Thai.

It will be nice to see you raise your (full) cup and toast them when they do win. Then you can take a sip to help wash down your large slice of humble pie

[hunt1]

Knifefighter, it seems that you have a belief that wing chun doesnt have much to offer real fighting yet you havent really felt good wing chun yourself. Your judgements appear to be made based on vids etc. May I suggest that you visit some wing chun schools and see if anyone is willing to trade leather with you in some friendly sparring. I am sure that in Cali there must be some wing chun peeps that would enjoy spending time with you.

If you ever have reason to travel to Florida I would be more than happy to glove up and have a go. I am sure I could find a few more that would be interested in playing. Who knows maybe I cant fight a lick and have been deluding myself.

[Shadowboxer]

It was suggested last year that he visit Dhira/AndrewS/Ernie in S. Cali to feel some "good WC". I wonder if he has gone to visit these hardcore guys with groundfighting skills? If not, why not?

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Shadowboxer
It was suggested last year that he visit Dhira/AndrewS/Ernie in S. Cali to feel some "good WC". I wonder if he has gone to visit these hardcore guys with groundfighting skills? If not, why not?

i have had some emails with Dale and to be honest , the guy is really cool , if we ever had the chance to hang out i doubt it would get to a ''hardcore'' level

a WC vs BJJ thing , i think that is stupid since styles don't fight people do .
the people that have those type of label hang ups , normally are the arm chair types that wouldn't get in front of anyone to save thier lives

you see there is really nothing to prove , if you have something that works and makes sense to you and your lifestyle

then it's all good

as for Dhira and Andrew , they both have ground game as well
so again it's back to the individual

i think it's very healthy for people to point fingers at our weaknesses lets you see what other people on the outside pick up on

if your training methods cover what is being pointed out then no harm no foul

if not , well

[Shadowboxer]

I hear ya' Ernie. I'm just wondering why he doesn't take the opportunity (or has he?) to experience some "good WC" from some guys who have ground skills as well?

I'm not into labels either--it IS all good. We've been working groundfighting the past several weeks.

I need to pressure test some more this year.

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Shadowboxer
I hear ya' Ernie. I'm just wondering why he doesn't take the opportunity (or has he?) to experience some "good WC" from some guys who have ground skills as well?

I'm not into labels either--it IS all good. We've been working groundfighting the past several weeks.

I need to pressure test some more this year.

bro,
people just find the path that best suits them based on what they have had exposure to .

maybe next week i will stumble onto a new super art called flying chicken toe thumbjitsu and it will blow all this silly wing chun stuff out of the water

maybe not who knows ?

keep me posted on what you discover as you pressure test , that is were the real gems come from

[Phil Redmond]

Ernie wrote:
>>"maybe next week i will stumble onto a new super art called flying chicken toe thumbjitsu and it will blow all this silly wing chun stuff out of the water"<<

I've been saying that for years. There could some rare, secret family style of kung fu that will blow WC out ot the water. When/if that happens let's see how many people 'jump ship'
Phil

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ernie
maybe next week i will stumble onto a new super art called flying chicken toe thumbjitsu and it will blow all this silly wing chun stuff out of the water

Just think of all the great marketing opportunities you'll have with an 'art' like that.