"Troy" fights scenes.

[Jet Johnson]

I just watched Troy last night for the first time. I have to give big thumbs up to the fight scene between Achilles (Brad) and Hector (Eric). It may be the best fight scene in 2004 (after Hero, of course). I find it interesting that the Greeks really had their own style of fighting, which involved mostly hacking and thrusting; as opposed to the slashing motion of the chinese broadsword. Good stuff!

[Judge Pen]

I haven't seen it yet, but I'm wanting too.

[MasterKiller]

It wasn't that bad if you've never read The Illyad. I liked the fight scenes, too. Long takes, not choppy MTV style edits. It looked cool.

[red5angel]

Me too. Overall the movie was sort of slow but the fight scenes and Achilles style were sort of cool.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Jet Johnson
...It may be the best fight scene in 2004 (after Hero, of course). I find it interesting that the Greeks really had their own style of fighting, which involved mostly hacking and thrusting; as opposed to the slashing motion of the chinese broadsword. Good stuff!

It was quite a good fight but do you really think that was representative of ancient Greek fighting styles?! I didn't know Wolfgang Peterson was a reincarnated ancient Greek! I don't think there were so many manuals either, or written reports, and if you look at ancient Greek vase pictures etc, their stances are much more standard than all that fancy-shmancy baton twirling stuff.

And I wouldn't really think anyone would swing their spear around the back of their neck like that, or quite go for so many one-handed thrusts from right on the end of the shaft with a soft metal bladed weapon - not enough power with that hand position I wouldn't have thought. The balancing it on the curve of the shield was just about plausible though, especially as those things would have been tiring to use.

BTW, I thought the film sucked donkey balls. A lot of potential, a lot of money, excellent performances from Brian Cox and especially Peter O'Toole, who just showed up Pitt's pouting monkey face for what it was... no they didn't - I still don't know what Pitt's monkey impression was in aid of... was that getting into a hero's character? If your hero has arms twice as long as his body and a preponderance of ginger all-over body hair.

Just my HO of course!

[red5angel]

I'm not sure about the greeks, but it's believed that the Romans practiced basic thrusting, stabbing and swinging. It's hard to say how refined their fighting style really was. Roman legions were trained well, but their opponents usually collapsed under their sheer ability to outmaneuver and outlast them on the battlefield.

I was reading an interesting study that claimed that during ancient battles, not as many people died or were wounded as some are led to believe. Most units or formations collapsed fairly quickly under the weight of a better trained unit.
Overall it's hard to say. We only have artisitic representations as far as I know.

I'm sure there were the adventerous sorts out there. My guess is that some of the great warriors, or the people the myths were based on, were probably people who paid alot of attention to what they were doing in combat.

[doug maverick]

Actual there are many manual on ancient greek fighting, since most of it was used in there sports, sword fighting was not taught in greece, as it was not deemed as anyhting special, one famous greek philosopher (don't remmeber his name) said sword fighting should be like walking. which explains why the greeks sword fighting looks the way it does, as for the film brad's style was made up, i know the fight cordinator, and they had to make him look good on a par with tom cruise in the last samurai(not saying they were going for that just thats what it looked like) there a book out there about the history of the sword and thats where i get this info about greek sword fighting from, i reall don't remmeber the name of the book but i'll look through my library tonight and post it tom. later

[Judge Pen]

Maybe if the Romans and Greeks learned how to fight through forms practice, we would know what they fought today.

[red5angel]

Doug, I'd have to disagree with you here. This is one situation where sport fighting has to differ from real fighting. In sport fighting The Greeks didn't fight in lines and phalanxes and other various formations. Even Roman gladiators didn't often fight in these types of formation sand so even their fighting would have been different, and probably more specialized and flashy to gain the attention of the crowd.

My guess is that while we'd like to imagine the common ancient soldier did some pretty neat stuff with his weapons, I'm betting the skillset was limited to a few short practical moves to keep it simple. Before the Roman Professional armies, there wasn't a whle lot of time to practice fighting. Most fighting skills were either developed over a short period of time - getting ready to invade/repel invaders - or as a means of survival - hunting, defending yourself in a time when threats to your life may have been more real.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I remember reading one member write that he "saw kung fu" in the thread reviewing the movie a few months back. I agree with him. I especially enjoyed the sparring match between Achilles and his "cousin". Great stuff.

mickey

[doug maverick]

I did not say that the greek soldiers used flashy moves(of course thats hollywood) and as for the phalanx up until alexander, the greek phalanx was always broken by the persians!! what i said was the greeks didn't have a formated way of teaching sword fighting as they did with the lance and archery. as for the romans they also used tight formation, sometimes it was so tight men who were killed were still standing as in the case when the romans fought against hannibal!!!


and as for kung fu in the film, ofcourse i seen plenty of it like the spear spinning behind the neck and a couple other little neat tricks!!!

[David Jamieson]

actually there is reems and reems of information on greek and roman fighting tactics. And a lot of it has been translated from it's original greek and latin.

for much info on roman fighting tactics and strategies, read anything by vegetius. Cicero is also a source for some stuff and there is plenty on Gladiatorial combat if one takes the time to look. It's not all vases and tapestries, there is paper on the matter.

For the Greeks, tehre is not only abundant artwork that clearly shows various practices, but there is also much from just teh single historian Herodotus. And more from others.

seriously, you guys might be surprised. It is worthy of note that Gladiatorial combat methods have been ressurected in Italy as well and there is now a full fledge Gladiator school where you can learn to use the gladius (roman short sword), Trident and net, spear, and many other unusual classic weapons of combat.

The Troy fight scenes, particularly Achilles and Hector were not based on any particular martial art that exists today but rather were drawn out of those sources mentioned above. It was a tactic to attempt to move over the sheild and pierce the spine or back of the neck in one on one combat. So that fight scene was perhaps one of the better reflections of that.

I was most impressed that no stunt men were used and that Pitt and Bana practiced that and did the shot themselves. Good for them.

Having said that, the movie doesn't measure up to Homer's epic, but its a good watch.

[MoreMisfortune]

i didnt like that fight much
i liked the first one where brad just ****s the huge dude with one strike

[Judge Pen]

Just watched Troy and I liked it a lot. Maybe it was because I was expecting to be dissapointed. Not Homer, but still good.

The fight between Pitt and Bana was awesome! Looked very realistic and brutal. I'm curious, though: Why grab the spear in the middle? All the greeks were thrusting with their right hand in the middle of the spear. That cuts off, what, 1/2 of their reach? Pitt and Bana did it too when fighting one on one, but this makes more sene because of the need to change directions and react to their opponent quickly.

[David Jamieson]

Why grab the spear in the middle?

because is short range this is the best way to use a spear with maximum force output.

This is simple physics really.

A really good example of this kind of spear use in a "more" modern setting is the zulu wars that were lead by Shaka Zulu.

Shaka made himself and all the warriors in his Krall that much more formidable by creating a short thrusting spear with a broad head. It was quite effective in short range combat by all accounts.

the position of strength is always closer to the body.