okay thanks for your opinion!Originally Posted by Runlikehell
Wing Chun Fighter
okay thanks for your opinion!
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Wing Chun Fighter
Chi Gung In YKS wing chun system!!!
Now different branches of YKS do different forms of Chi gung...but i will give a few of the ones that are publically known...I also have other chi gung taught to me by sifu that is not listed on here...but some of them look similiar to what hendrik does!
Rising arms - stretches out the entire body...beginner level...you stretch the back muscles and straighten the spine, allow blood flow and oxygen to be release from stagnate places. Muslces and bones are massaged and relaxed like accupressure and chiropratic correction. Your hands, neck, feet, shins, thighs, knees,back, chest, stomach,wrist, fingers, and elbows are affected...advance level you open the meridians. send chi up and down the spine from the lower dan tian to the upper dan tian...chi flows through both the conceptual and governing meridan. It promotes an increase flow of chi and realease stagnantion of chi. Mind, and spirit relaxes. Its like accupucnture relieveing blockage and healing you.
Side-to-side waist turns the hips and torso Opens the wasit and hips, sides, and pelvic. It massages and stimulates the lower dan tian. beginner level hips, shoulders, lower back and neck are stretched and relieved. advanced level chi stagnation and bloackage is release. chi flows and is release from the lower dan tian. The kidneys are restored and exercised.
Single hoof or tea cup - i practice it two ways inside out and outside in...
I will discuss outside in...One hand comes out similiar to Tan Sau. as it goes out an swings the shoulder is open...see phil redmond site for pressure points charts. The motion of the arm swinging out opens up the right and left arm meridians. on beginner level your muscles and bones are exercises. opening up the shoulder blade, the shoulder and the upper back and neck. Also the arm it self is rejuvenated. as the hand passes over your head your back goes backwards..the bending is a strecthing and opening of the meridians. in beginner stage your back muslces should release and or pop if your tight there. This rejuvenantes the body from holding the curl or convex body structure. even if you dont utilize the curl there is still some muscle tighting from the pelvic being tilted in. this allows you open up the back meridians another way and allow more chi to flow. as the hand comes to your side an turns in like a huen sau you are working and exercising the wrist...of course you can practice huen sau technique over and over again. But this exercise gives you a wide range of motions on both sides opeing up the meridians...
Expanding chest - opens the chest and back. You will feel your back muslces collaspe in and your chest strecthes outward. In beginner stage your back or chest will pop and muscles will release...in advance stages you will chi stagnation points be relieved and feel the energy traveling through your meridians. Afterwards depending on your level you will feel relieved in those areas...either energized or ready to rest!
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Wing Chun Fighter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI0i5eulDUc
time stamp 0:03 arms rising up opens the arms up and the shoulders and upper back and shoulder blades up. the meridians in the chest are open too as well sending chi down the arms to the fingers tips. the arms going down sends the chi back down to dan tian and sinks the chi and your root!
time stamp 0:31 there are alot of things this is doing from cycling the chi from the two dan tians middle and lower. but when you do it hundred times or more you begin to feel your hands getting heavier. You feel the meridans in your forearms open up. You feel tingle, sparks and eventually it feels like waves of energy puslating through your hands, fingers and arms and elbow. Your entire Arm also consider the hand or palm in chinese thought begins to feel harder and conditioned...it is filled with energy and chi...this practice also deals with the lower dan tian below your navel and affects the spot directly corresponding in your back!
of course his stuff doesnt coincide with your idea of wing chun structure right?
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Phoenix eye hammer
Thanks for the clip.
詠春係一個家庭
詠春係一個家庭
Some Chinese MA systems will go to the ground and swing at your ankles with a sword, pole, leung tiu kwan, etc.
So would you simply stand there and get your ankles slashed?
Wing Chun Fighter
yes the last one is hendrik clip i was just using it as a reference!Thanks for the clip.
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Registered User
Well Yoshi, If nothing else, I appreciate your finally trying to give me your take on things. Since I think we are never going to get on the same page on this, I'm just going to make my comments in general instead of commenting back line-by-line.
I think one of our major disconnects is that you feel anything and everything can be WCK, all you have to do is have a title of 'sifu' or 'grandmaster' add it to the system, stamp it WCK and you're done.
IMO, you can do that ONLY if it still works within the framework of the system's principles concepts where you don't feel this is necessary. Clearly our understanding of what is the 'WCK system' are 2 very different things.
Another disconnect: the difference between the curriculum and the system itself. Obviously you are not making a distinction between the 2. Again, that's fine if it works for you, but our understanding on these topics is too different to speak on any common ground.
(BTW, I've seen several instances where people have appointed themselves the title Grandmaster literally over night. While there are some I feel have earned the respect through years of teaching to be called that, just because someone puts GM in front of their name doesn't mean they have a clue about what they are doing. But that's another topic)
Now I'm beginning to get a better understanding about why people say WCK has such a bad rep among the rest of the MA's community. And why people say a lot of WCK being taught today is a shell of what it once was - too many people all doing their own thing adding/subtracting and losing the actual WCK identity. Again, I have no problem with people doing whatever they want, but why not just call it what it is?
As far as chi gung only being for healing and cultivation and not for combat, we totally disagree here too. I do agree chi gung is for healing & cultivation. And that is surely one side of it, and an important one. And, surely people can focus only on that side. But, when it is integrated as part of a martial system, it most surely can have direct benefit for martial application. To think it can't is just silly and frankly, uneducated.
So if a system has been handing something down for fifty years or more is apart of that WC system?
No, not necessarily. Maybe it's just a version of that lineages curriculum, but IMO the system itself is already complete. Once you start adding or taking away from the actual 'system' and moving away from it's principles/concepts, you are changing its nature and thus the art itself. But, I'm repeating myself here. Clearly, you and I are on 2 different planets in this thinking
My advice would be to look up the definitions for curriculum and system frist before going further with this discussion. Or amybe define the 2 for me from a WCK pov..
actually No...he is a friend and my older brother "Sihing". His teacher was different than mines...His training was different also.
my teacher was much more into chi cultivation, softness, and flow. These are somethings he dwelled on...My teacher doesn't have any videos up on youtube...His teacher does...but his teacher has changed the WC system he taught over 25 years ago and now its a mixture of choy li fut and wc! His name is Robert Lee McField. My teacher name is Wilbert Smith.
If I understand correctly, your sifu, Wilbert Smith, learned from McField, who 25 years ago mixed a bunch of stuff into his WCK? Ok, now I'm getting a clearer picture.
Isn't this guy was from YKS too? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9f1WMbY
I thought I remember a year or so back you telling us this is part of your training group. Is this not similar to your WCK and how you train?
WC doesnt bob and weave...atleast my lineage doesn't...but some WC sifus have added bobbing and weaving, sticking and moving, round house kicks, high kicks, [snip]...some people even have a ducking move![/QUOTE]
And some add tea cup chi gung sets. Yeah, it's amazing what people call WCK these days
-------
Regarding videos: No, I do not have any videos of the chi gung trainig I am speaking of. Actually, some of this is described in the Mastering Kung Fu book, and I think we had an article on some of this as well. To date, HFY has not released any official videos. But, that will be changing this year! I'm not sure we will film our chi gung training, but we will be showing our HFY SNT shortly, along with some other promotional videos.
Last edited by JPinAZ; 01-07-2012 at 08:51 AM.
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
Registered User
Haha, Phil, it sounds like a fun time to me too!Some Chinese MA systems will go to the ground and swing at your ankles with a sword, pole, leung tiu kwan, etc.
So would you simply stand there and get your ankles slashed?
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
Wing Chun Fighter
Well we wont agree your right...
McField didnt add the tea cup nor did Mau Chang...The Tea cup and other chi gung drills was added by Sum Nung...
As for Stan I did mention him in another post I wrote you more than one Post my friend....
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...9&postcount=81
I will say there is a difference between Jing and Chi...Jing is for fighting with...although there are chi gung sets that deal with fighting applications..an of course the chi gung set could be use in a fighting application if you modify the techniques. and the chi gung set does increase certain abililites...But directly its not for fighting...
Hendrik does an exercises where he rises on his toes? If you can illustrate Jipnaz how that technique directly translates into fighting...im saying modify it i mean directly as is...i will beleive you!!!
Did you read this post two 80 and 81?
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...1&postcount=80
i stated why i call it apart of system...I will rephrase...the YKS system!
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...5&postcount=77
I mention Kung Fu Stan in an earlier Post,,,,,besides he doesn't practice the WC chi gung...He practices 18 figure tai chi! He has been doing Tai Chi for over 15 years! Wing Chun even longer!!!! But if you like to speak about him...He only accepts people who wishes to spar!
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...2&postcount=76
And some add tea cup chi gung sets. Yeah, it's amazing what people call WCK these daysWell Yoshi, If nothing else, I appreciate your finally trying to give me your take on things. Since I think we are never going to get on the same page on this, I'm just going to make my comments in general instead of commenting back line-by-line.
I think one of our major disconnects is that you feel anything and everything can be WCK, all you have to do is have a title of 'sifu' or 'grandmaster' add it to the system, stamp it WCK and you're done.
IMO, you can do that ONLY if it still works within the framework of the system's principles concepts where you don't feel this is necessary. Clearly our understanding of what is the 'WCK system' are 2 very different things.
Another disconnect: the difference between the curriculum and the system itself. Obviously you are not making a distinction between the 2. Again, that's fine if it works for you, but our understanding on these topics is too different to speak on any common ground.
(BTW, I've seen several instances where people have appointed themselves the title Grandmaster literally over night. While there are some I feel have earned the respect through years of teaching to be called that, just because someone puts GM in front of their name doesn't mean they have a clue about what they are doing. But that's another topic)
Now I'm beginning to get a better understanding about why people say WCK has such a bad rep among the rest of the MA's community. And why people say a lot of WCK being taught today is a shell of what it once was - too many people all doing their own thing adding/subtracting and losing the actual WCK identity. Again, I have no problem with people doing whatever they want, but why not just call it what it is?
As far as chi gung only being for healing and cultivation and not for combat, we totally disagree here too. I do agree chi gung is for healing & cultivation. And that is surely one side of it, and an important one. And, surely people can focus only on that side. But, when it is integrated as part of a martial system, it most surely can have direct benefit for martial application. To think it can't is just silly and frankly, uneducated.
So if a system has been handing something down for fifty years or more is apart of that WC system?
No, not necessarily. Maybe it's just a version of that lineages curriculum, but IMO the system itself is already complete. Once you start adding or taking away from the actual 'system' and moving away from it's principles/concepts, you are changing its nature and thus the art itself. But, I'm repeating myself here. Clearly, you and I are on 2 different planets in this thinking
My advice would be to look up the definitions for curriculum and system frist before going further with this discussion. Or amybe define the 2 for me from a WCK pov..
actually No...he is a friend and my older brother "Sihing". His teacher was different than mines...His training was different also.
my teacher was much more into chi cultivation, softness, and flow. These are somethings he dwelled on...My teacher doesn't have any videos up on youtube...His teacher does...but his teacher has changed the WC system he taught over 25 years ago and now its a mixture of choy li fut and wc! His name is Robert Lee McField. My teacher name is Wilbert Smith.
If I understand correctly, your sifu, Wilbert Smith, learned from McField, who 25 years ago mixed a bunch of stuff into his WCK? Ok, now I'm getting a clearer picture.
Isn't this guy was from YKS too? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9f1WMbY
I thought I remember a year or so back you telling us this is part of your training group. Is this not similar to your WCK and how you train?
WC doesnt bob and weave...atleast my lineage doesn't...but some WC sifus have added bobbing and weaving, sticking and moving, round house kicks, high kicks, [snip]...some people even have a ducking move!
-------
Regarding videos: No, I do not have any videos of the chi gung trainig I am speaking of. Actually, some of this is described in the Mastering Kung Fu book, and I think we had an article on some of this as well. To date, HFY has not released any official videos. But, that will be changing this year! I'm not sure we will film our chi gung training, but we will be showing our HFY SNT shortly, along with some other promotional videos.[/QUOTE]
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Registered User
Since you really didn't answer, I'll wait for an actual answer to these questions before going any further with you:
1. Isn't this guy (Kung Fu Stan as you call him) from YKS too? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9f1WMbY
2. Since you both are from S.L. and training YKS, is what he does in his clips similar to what and how you train?
3. Read this carefully, because I'm not talking about something you posted in the past couple of days: I thought I remember a year or so back you telling us (in a conversation with Terrence) that this is part of your training group. So, do you train with him? If not, is this not similar to your WCK and how you train?
---
Don't ask me to explain anything Hendrik says or does. I have no clue why he does or says the thing he does. Really, I don't see him as being an actual WCK 'practitioner' and he is clearly either over-medicated, under-medicated or simply in need of a straight jacket. I say 'practitioner' because IMO, you need to actually PRACTICE or be able to use WCK to be one.
Last edited by JPinAZ; 01-07-2012 at 04:55 PM.
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
Wing Chun Fighter
Fair enough...Stan is my Sihing...His teacher is different than mines. over the last year or two i have had a chance to train with him a little...the way he trains is different than the way i was taught but their are similiarites. For instance the san sik or punch form as he calls it is the same. We have the same basic. The forms are the same too...in addition to that he has showed me a few extra forms such as fighting drill and chi gung exercise to build jing as he learned it from McField at the bequest of his sifu. His Sifu is Mr.Bernsied. I think i spelled his name wrong...my sifu is Mr.Smith. His Wing Chun is different than mines and his training too...My Sifu emphasizes different aspects than he does...But yet and still one would have to touch hands with stan to actually judge his fighting prowess.
We do not have group persay. Me and another guy learn from Mr. Smith. Who now teaches Tai Chi and Baguazhang. Stan is big wing chun brother who i have the upmost respect for. The San Sik is the same the forms are similiar. I think anyone interested in fighting with wing chun can learn alot from stan since his WC is tried and tested from actual fighting not just sparring!
I have trained with Stan and his Son on numerous occasions in the past. Even practiced on wooden dummy, wall bag, heavy bag and long pole.
He is YKS too. His Sifu also taught him some of the Yip Man system too. Like the three forms and dan chi sau.
Have i answered your questions to sastifaction right now?
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Registered User
Ignoring the poor attempt at sarcasm, yes for the most part.
Since I do not have personal experience with YKS, I was hoping you could share some of your insight with me regarding the drills, forms and yours and stan's training. I will use his clips as a reference since you are both YKS, come from the same WC family and train together.
You said:
Honestly, I'm a little surprised you say this. Would you then say this is a good representation of his skill in YKS WCK and do they represent YKS WC drills and training well? And please explain why. Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9f1WMbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtkaS...1&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9...lcp&playnext=1
Is this how you train YKS WC? If so/not please explain why.
Lastly, here are 2 clips of his YKS SLT. Can you give me any feedback on this? Is this a good representation of YKS forms and Stans skills?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsEbu...9&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybN8e...0&feature=plcp
Side question, How is Stan your sihing if you have different teachers? Sihing means older kung fu brother, which means you both have to have the same teacher.
Last edited by JPinAZ; 01-08-2012 at 12:42 PM.
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
Registered User
Yoshiyahu is one of the guys in the clips ?Ignoring the poor attempt at sarcasm
Since I do not have personal experience with YKS, I was hoping you could share some of your insight with me regarding the drills, forms and yours and stan's training. I will use his clips as a reference since you are both YKS, come from the same WC family and train together.
You said:
Honestly, I'm a little surprised you say this. Would you then say this is a good representation of his skill in YKS WCK and do they represent YKS WC drills and training well? And please explain why. Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9f1WMbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtkaS...1&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9...lcp&playnext=1
Is this how you train YKS WC? If so/not please explain why.
Lastly, here are 2 clips of his YKS SLT. Can you give me any feedback on this? Is this a good representation of YKS forms and Stans skills?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsEbu...9&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybN8e...0&feature=plcp
Side question, How is Stan your sihing if you have different teachers? Sihing means older kung fu brother, which means you both have to have the same teacher.
Wing Chun Fighter
No actually that is kung fu stan and his Son....
i met his son a couple of times...he was just beginning WC at that time...he has the fist form and some drills...I wont make mention is his SLT because he just learn the form when he did the video!
Ignoring the poor attempt at sarcasm
Since I do not have personal experience with YKS, I was hoping you could share some of your insight with me regarding the drills, forms and yours and stan's training. I will use his clips as a reference since you are both YKS, come from the same WC family and train together.
You said:
Honestly, I'm a little surprised you say this. Would you then say this is a good representation of his skill in YKS WCK and do they represent YKS WC drills and training well? And please explain why. Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9f1WMbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtkaS...1&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9...lcp&playnext=1
Is this how you train YKS WC? If so/not please explain why.
Lastly, here are 2 clips of his YKS SLT. Can you give me any feedback on this? Is this a good representation of YKS forms and Stans skills?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsEbu...9&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybN8e...0&feature=plcp
Side question, How is Stan your sihing if you have different teachers? Sihing means older kung fu brother, which means you both have to have the same teacher.
first off Stans innovations are different than the way my sifu trained me...These drills are very good against long range fighters or outside fighting. My Sifu didnt train us this way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9f1WMbY
Again these or stans innovations. I didnt learn this applications...my applications are different than his. I also have my own innovations too..What works best for me i should say from actually sparring with people. Stans innovations are different...my sifu would drill the form...drill chi sau and drill sparring. from the sparring we try an apply different techniques we drilled. my pak sau drills are mostly outside. I usually pak sau from the outside unless i have to do a technique on the inside. I perfer the outside of my opponent. His Techinques have been tested in the street however so i cant take anything from it. If you think his techs dont work. I am sure he would be more than happy to spar with you when ur in saint louis?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtkaS...1&feature=plcp
these are more flowing drills. Where stan is throwing random punches. I have been on the receiving end of those punches. Believe me if you ever been hit by stan, you would know he is firing those punches for real. The reason why his son is backing away. Is because Stan is putting alot of power into those punches. i know because i been on the receiving in and felt his power. He is demostrating on how technique works against powerful punches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXH9...lcp&playnext=1
Here is Stans SLT...It has some innovations with in but for the most part it is exactly like what he learn from Robert McField. Some Techniques are under exaggerated on youtube. But Stans is also placing emphasis on the applications of snake hand technique which is wider in his form and smaller in Joseph Chow. Stan is also emphasis the martial aspect of SLT not the chi gung cultivation. That is why his form is not slow in the beginning (Three Prayers to Buddha) Especially Wu Sau, Fok Sau Huen San cycle. Have you ever hit someone with a Fok Sau. It has enough power to drop someone if you have internal power and hit them at the right time. Timing is everything. He has the same constant speed so you can clearly see all the techniques in detail but he is emitting power at the end of each technique! My SLT is different...My Sifu taught me his innovated form of SLT and also have a standardize version with my innovations. Ne way. I still say if you want to judge stans WC i suggest you actually get up with him and spar. He will also chi sau if you like. But I think sparring with him would be more beneficial for you. Since his WC is designed for fighting. Specifically street fighting!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybN8e...0&feature=plcp
Joseph Chow Siu Lien Tao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPHZ0xrd5fY
Last edited by Yoshiyahu; 01-08-2012 at 08:02 PM.
The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.
"Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."
"Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."
"Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
