A question in comparing street fighting to our styles

[prince006]

in your opinion can our style...(whatever style you do) easily beat a street fighter?

how does your martial arts go up against street fighters?
if you dont know just what do u think

[pest]

in your opinion can our style...(whatever style you do) easily beat a street fighter?

I dont think its so much style then how much do you train and can you apply it at combat speed with a resisting opponent who is trying to do the same.

When I think of a street fight, I start thinking more of a survival situation because you never know if the opponent has weapons, how far will they go or what kind of background they have (if its a stranger).

Just a thought,
~Pest

[Samurai Jack]

Aikido focuses on restraining and controlling an assailant, and when it's used for that it is exceptionally effective. As with anything you've got to do what you train in a fight. How many times have we seen a kickboxer try to grapple with a Jujutsuka? Or a wrestler try to box a boxer? The results or only good when you actually fight the way you train, then the only thing that matters is whether or not you've put in enough training time to be really good at what you do.

As far as easy? Fighting isn't easy. Anyone who tells you different hasn't ever been in a real fight.

[prince006]

well i have been in street fights and i do boxing and i have been in lots of sparring and they are completely different
boxing lets you take a lot of beating in order to get your move. you cant do that in a street fight
one hit in the head and you can get knocked out cold
boxing might make you hit harder and quicker but it doesnt really help that much in a street fight

on the other hand your martial arts? you tell me

and do you think it makes you better...etc

my area has a lot of fights...ist not good
you really need self defence

[Samurai Jack]

I've boxed for longer than any other MA I've trained. Boxing is an excellent MA for self-defense. Taking a shot to the head on the street and taking one in the ring is different for two reasons. Firstly, the boxing glove tends to make it less likely that you'll open up a facial cut. That's about it. The glove does more to protect your hand, and less to protect your face. The second big difference is that most untrained individuals can't hit very hard at all. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but my experience is that most boxing trained fighters are better prepared for the street than the majority of martial artists from other arts with similar amounts of training. In other words, boxing will teach you to fight in less time.

That said, I preffer Aikido for my purposes. As a full-time mental health crisis counselor, I'm called upon to intervene in physical confrontations all the time. I'm not allowed to just clock a violent mentally ill person, nor would I want to. Aikido's joint locks and unbalancing techniques work very well for the purpose of control and restraint. The added benifit is that if someone's under your control, they can't hit you! In that regard, I believe Aikido to be superior.

Again, I'll reiterate: A martial art is only good for you if it trains you to fight the way you need it too. If you are a regular joe, without alot of time to spend trying to learn to fight, your needs are going to be different than a cop's or a soldier's. The first step in selecting an effective art for self-defense is deciding what it is that you need your art to do for you.

[prince006]

well in a street fight its mainly brawling and you know how to punch dont get me wrong and u can take a hit.


but saying that if someone tackles you to the ground...you have no idea how to react to a grapling hold or a throw..etc.

so how can boxing be the best self defence for street fighting?

[pest]

Hi prince006,
On the ground I dont think much has changed other then the obvious. If you have hands free you can punch and defend, when you have the opportunity to get up take it.
You train standing up you should try to stay there especially in a fight that has no rules.

so how can boxing be the best self defence for street fighting?

Just for the record I have never boxed. Use whatever fighting system you know, it can be the best for you because thats what you know how to do.

Somtimes while training at home, I just lay down and shadow box. Consider everything in your arsenal including defensive positions.

Just a thought,
~Pest

[Samurai Jack]

Originally posted by prince006
so how can boxing be the best self defence for street fighting?

Whoa! Slow down there Prince, nobody said anything about "best self-defense". There ain't no such thing. Boxing will give you a set of tools that apply to a street fight. You wanna fight on the ground, you're going to need a different set of tools for that. As I've said now three times, you've got to select an art that teaches you what you feel you need to know.

Now I would never ever personally choose to go to the ground on the street. In my line of work I expect to be assaulted by groups of people on cold, hard pavement. Groundfighting is the last thing I want to do. Sure I need to drill some groundwork, and I do, but I don't want to go there if I can avoid it.

Now maybe you feel you need a groundfighting art. Fine. This is an excellent tool to develop. Combined with your boxing skills, you'll be very formidable, and prepared for almost any unarmed encounter. I'd say do it, if you want to.

You've got to get this idea of "the one unbeatable art" out of your head though. MA provide various tools that are useful for self-defense, but you can't use a saw to drive a nail! Select an art that teaches you to deal with whatever you believe you are most likely to encounter on the street. Spend the rest of your life mastering that art, and once you've developed black belt level skill, seek other arts that patch up the holes in what you've learned.

It sounds like you've already started to do this as you're noticing that boxing isn't going to get you out of 100% of the tight spots you might find yourself in. Great! Now take your hard earned knowledge and build on it. Don't discard your boxing though. It's a good simple base for you to build your arsenal on.

[Vash]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
I've boxed for longer than any other MA I've trained. Boxing is an excellent MA for self-defense. Taking a shot to the head on the street and taking one in the ring is different for two reasons. Firstly, the boxing glove tends to make it less likely that you'll open up a facial cut. That's about it. The glove does more to protect your hand, and less to protect your face. The second big difference is that most untrained individuals can't hit very hard at all. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but my experience is that most boxing trained fighters are better prepared for the street than the majority of martial artists from other arts with similar amounts of training. In other words, boxing will teach you to fight in less time.

That said, I preffer Aikido for my purposes. As a reserve police officer and a full-time mental health crisis counselor, I'm called upon to intervene in physical confrontations all the time. I'm not allowed to just clock a violent mentally ill person, nor would I want to. Aikido's joint locks and unbalancing techniques work very well for the purpose of control and restraint. The added benifit is that if someone's under your control, they can't hit you! In that regard, I believe Aikido to be superior.

Again, I'll reiterate: A martial art is only good for you if it trains you to fight the way you need it too. If you are a regular joe, without alot of time to spend trying to learn to fight, your needs are going to be different than a cop's or a soldier's. The first step in selecting an effective art for self-defense is deciding what it is that you need your art to do for you.

That was so correct, it made my nipples hard.

[prince006]

Originally posted by Vash
That was so correct, it made my nipples hard.

ok that disturbed me


anyway jack


thats practlaly like saying every martial arts is different
its not answering my question what do u think the best is for a street fight...

each martial arts have there own strength's odviously

bruce lee said that all martial arts have weakness's thats why he invinted jeet kwon do....to have no style

but personally i dont know much about it but its a thought

[SevenStar]

here's a quick, dirty answer to your question: there is no best art. Follow jack's advice and train what you think you need to know.

BTW - it's jeet KUNE do

[SimonM]

Originally posted by prince006

but saying that if someone tackles you to the ground...you have no idea how to react to a grapling hold or a throw..etc.

so how can boxing be the best self defence for street fighting?

Three things:

1: In all the fights I have been in and have seen (by which I mean fights, not matches) a grand total of one ended in ground work. Despite what the BJJ guys say, lots of fights are resolved from standing every day.

2: The one things MMA guys get right is cross-training between styles. If you are concerned about ground fighting, learn some Shuai Jiao or JJ or BJJ or Judo or Wrestling or whatever.

3: As my sifu is fond of saying: there is no such thing as an unbeatable style. No style is the best. Some have obvious deficiencies or weakness that a smart fighter can exploit. Some have fewer or have weaknesses that are harder to exploit. Much depends on the intensity and methodology of how you train and that is remarkably simmilar cross-styles. Find a style that works well for you and train hard every day and you should be able to defend yourself provided that you are getting legitimate instruction. Apply logic to the motions, ask what is this move for? Think about vectors of force while you practice, understand how your own body is moving and how it will respond to the bodies of others. The rest will follow.

Addendum:

QUOTE]Originally posted by prince006

bruce lee said that all martial arts have weakness's thats why he invinted jeet kwon do....to have no style [/QUOTE]

Bruce Lee... Bruce Lee...

He took a bunch of common-sense ideas that had been bounced around the martial arts world for hundreds of years and said he invented them. Jeet Kune Do was a very good way of marketing his Kung Fu and made Bruce Lee lots of money.

He was a very good martial artist. He was not the very best.

I'd refer you to the Wong Jack Man story for some understanding of the Bruce Lee situation but I have this advice:

Linda Lee and Wong Jack Man have very divergent versions of what happened that day. Although both are biassed and both have suspect testemony, the balance seems to favor Wong Jack Man's version of events more.

[Meat Shake]

Its completely subjective.

It all depends on how you approach your training... Realize that someone in the street isnt going to strike up a fighting stance and get ready... they 9 times out of 10 will come barreling in head down arms swinging any which way to hit you. Its a completely different thing to deal with.
...
That said, I completely agree with jack about the fact that the untrained dont know **** about throwing a proper punch. Ive watched some ugggly punches get thrown in street fights.
Also hella less likely to have someone slap al lock on you.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Meat Shake

That said, I completely agree with jack about the fact that the untrained dont know **** about throwing a proper punch. Ive watched some ugggly punches get thrown in street fights.
Also hella less likely to have someone slap al lock on you.

I also completely agree.

I'd say the most important things to remember in a real fight are:

1: Stay calm.
2: Be the first one to land a connecting hit.
3: Remember your training; it's there for a reason.
4: If you do get knocked over remember points 1 and 3.
5: Street fights are not honorable matches; you get no points for polieness or fair play. Hit fast, hard and dirty. Make them bleed if you can; people don't generally like the sight of their own blood.

I'd say the most common mistakes made by a martial artist in a real fight are:

1: Getting ansy.
2: Forgetting their training and mindlessly lashing out.
3: Getting ****y - no Martial Art makes you invincible.
4: Assuming that an "untrained opponent" will act like a white belt Karate student.

I'm hoping that the people on this board are not going out and picking fights. With that in mind most opponents that any of us face on the street are likely to be angry, prepared to fight and charged up on adrenalin. This is very diffenent from a nervous, self conscious white belt who finds them thrust into the ring with a "superior" opponent. This is why remaining calm, humble and alert are so important. Be prepared for anything.

[WinterPalm]

I think Black Tiger is pretty good. Maybe you should look this style up?