White Ape sets

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

I'm still confused about the White Ape sets. The White Ape Steals Peach I know is different then some of the video I've seen, namely shirkers1.

I remember reading discussions on it before but I don't recall the final outcome. The one I know would be the same as Art's upcoming seminar. Was Jake's recent seminar the same set?

Can anyone explain it again?

[sayloc]

what system is your set from

[Three Harmonies]

My set comes from the Taiji Meihua Tanglang family of Hu Xi Lin - Ma Han Qin, from mainland (Beijing) China. Shirkers1 does HK Seven Star. I have seen many families play this set from Hk including John Funk, some Tai Mantis folks and what not. Very similar. The version I know is strikingly different in both appearance and technique. I have not seen many mainland versions of Bai Yuan Tao Toe so I have little to compare too. I would love to hear/see Brendan Tunks Laoshis' version.
I have also been told (but don't know 100%) that the Wutang and Pachitanglang groups do not do a version of this form. But Yang Shu Ton Laoshi has been hosting the very talented Sun De Yao Laoshi for a few years now, and I know several of Tonys students have been training diligently under him learning the Hao Jia Meihua Tanglang. I have not seen the Hao families version either, but would love too since we are distantly related!
My 2 cents!
Jake

[yu shan]

The BYTT that I have is from Jake`s lineage. Cool form and flows very well. I did not get to learn Art`s BYTT, guess I was not ready or something. I am very interested in the White Ape series, I hope to learn more.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Ok, that would be the same. The one I know is Taiji Meihua. I learned it years ago but it traces back to Art D'Agostino. I believe Art picked it up during one of the China trips but I don't know who taught him.

Edit: yu shan
I guess we were posting at the same time. So does John teach this set or the other BYTT?

[yu shan]

HLL

I have no idea whether Shifu Scolaro knows BYTT, we have never talked about this form. He was already living in Taiwan when Art taught it. And I do not know if Master Shr taught him this form. One of my guys demonstrated Hu Xi Lin`s BYTT to Master Shr while he was here. I have seen my shrshungs do this form in Taiwan. It is differant than what I have. I especially like the two-person form of BYTT that Master Shr teaches, maybe someday...

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Check out the San Diego clip on Mike Dasargo's website. It's the same set but what I have appears to be a stripped down version, not as many moves as seen in this clip.

Between the time that Art taught it and I learned it I believe it went through 2 or 3 other people and I don't know how many years. Maybe some moves got lost but it's definitely much shorter.

[yu shan]

Nice clip HLL, thanks. This form has more to it than the way I have it also. Just another approach I guess. Do you really think some moves got lost? The Wah Lum crowd always seemed into precision. I know myself and others wanted to pass material down exactly how we learned it. In my early days, I use to get upset when a form was differant from WL school to WL school.

[Tainan Mantis]

Hll,
If your version is thru Art or one of his students then it is the same as Jake(Three harmonies).
I learned this from Art, my first PM Shifu, and saw Yushan's version.

There are some big differences, but it is the same set.

Art's is the 7* version and looks more like what 7* people of Shandong do.

Yushan,
John did not learn this set.
In Taiwan, no one ever passed down this set and the HK WHF book was not publicly available so it never became popular or known here.
Shiye traveled to HK to learn this set among others.

He calls it Mantis Steals the Peach according to the HK 7* tradition though it is very close to the Shandong version fow hat this whole thread is about.

[Three Harmonies]

Tainan is correct. Same set, with a different flavor and a few different moves. Interesting to see though, and he has some nice power and what not. Do you know if this is supposed to be HK 7 star, or more mainland?? It is totally different than all the HK 7 Star I have seen!! Do you know where he got it?
Jake

[Frogman]

Interesting…
I have seen this clip before but did not know the form at the time. I just learned it a few months ago. I’m not sure where my Sifu learned it but it is most likely similar to the one HLL knows. I noticed that the first half of the form in the clip is exactly or at least very close to the version I learned. The second half is completely different, save the closing move. I don’t know that much about it, but I do love doing this form. It’s nice to be able to see it done differently not just in the sequence but also the movements themselves have a different flavor. If not for football I would practice this afternoon. The video provided by shirkers1 is completely different. It made me think that there is a difference between White Monkey, as it was told to me, and White Ape. Are they the same form with different versions, or two different forms that get confused since the names are similar?

fm

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

yu shan
Now I'm interested in seeing Jake's version. Guess that gives us something to compare notes on next time we meet.

Sometimes for seminars, especially with a large or really mixed (experience) group, moves are left out to simplify the form for faster learning.

Also when a set is passed on years later or through a few people quickly a few moves could get lost.

Since what I have came from a seminar and passed through a few people with years in between it's possible some moves were lost.

Tainan Mantis
Thanks for the info but it's my understanding that Art's is Taiji Meihua, not 7*. I believe the 7* version opens with a punch and TJMH opens with mantis hooks.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

That's the thing, Frogman, it's confusing as hell. I believe Tom learned this set in China with Art so it would be the same.

It seems that mainland 7* vresion is the same but HK 7* version is different.

BTW, what's with all the WASP seminars these days?

[Tainan Mantis]

HLL,

Art's is 7*. Absolutely no doubt about it.

The version taught in Shandong, not to be confused with the WASP taught by HK 7*.

[Frogman]

I do believe that my Sifu learned the form on the mainland. He had mentioned there was a hot bed of 7*, I think he said Shandong, I will ask to be sure.

fm