White Ape sets

[Mantis1959]

The set on the video appears to be Mantis Steals the Peach not White Ape Steals the Peach.

[Young Mantis]

Again, this depends on who you ask. My understanding of these forms is the following:

Originally there were two forms known only as
Chut Dong - Exits Cave
Tao Tow - Steals Peach

Somewhere along the line, PRC mantis folks began calling these forms with the White Ape prefix. These same forms were named presumably by Law Gwong Yook with the Praying Mantis prefix. He then added two more forms to his curriculum with the White Ape prefixes of the same names. These forms are not found in PRC as far as I know by any name and seem to be unique to the LGY lineage.

I don't know why and when the names were changed for the original forms by the PRC community or by LGY.

YM

[Mantis1959]

Young Mantis where in NY are you. I'm originally from Queens, in New Jersey now.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

I think I got it now.

shirkers1
I stand corrected. I realized awhile after I posted the your WASP starts with a reverse mantis groin strike but was too lazy to edit my post.

Mantis1959
You're a little light on info in your profile. I was wondering, are you with Master Wang Rengang?

Any other mantis in NJ?

[shirkers1]

Hua Lin

no worries. It happens to the best of them. Sometimes I look back on what I write and I'm like "wha"? Then I'm to lazy to re write it, or realize that everyone already read it so I look like a tard and say screw it.

[Mantis1959]

Hua Lin Laoshi, No I am from the Chiu Leun sect (Chiu Chi Man) Northern 7 Star Mantis. Not sure if other mantis in New Jersey.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Ok, I know Master Wang has a school in north Jersey so I thought you might train there.

[Young Mantis]

Originally posted by Mantis1959
Young Mantis where in NY are you. I'm originally from Queens, in New Jersey now.

Mantis1959,
I live in the Bronx, the school is in Manhattan.

[flem]

Hua lin,

Master shr, has the same set(probably both). He worked on it with me years ago when I was visiting my brother in law. He was showing me the two person set. The last run had some minor changes, and a movement that was the same, but cut in half, like a hop. Which allows the the "user" the ability to counter, when previously it would have taken too long. Also, those final three punchs were not in it. The main difference in his movement and ours was the tight structure, just like pong lais other stances... ugly but effective. I think the version art learned is taught to kind of show off, wide low, cool looking stance...
one more thing, when this form was talked about like at performances master chan referred to it as "seven star", as if the white ape part wasn't even a word, not that we needed to even question tainan mantis!

[shang wu]

Flem,
I don’t think it’s about things being taught to look cool for demos, you see this stylized difference in much of Zhang bing dao’s movement, as well as other mainland mantis I’ve seen. I love master Shr and respect his vast and deep knowledge and always enjoy and value his teaching but that being said he is not the last word on it. He is a voice in this very large dialogue that has been going on for centuries and with the help of all of us will be going on for much longer. pm me on that ½ move in the last road I’m interested in this. When you’re in town come by the farm with the kids and do some horse back riding with them.

[flem]

Shang Wu,

Well I meant that the low stance are better used to train the legs, but don't seem applicable in a fighting situation. Probably not so good for the knees either! Actually, I like a happy medium between the two, as Pong Lai's rear knee, seems quite awkward to me.

[shang wu]

Flem,

I can go with that. I like the middle way as well, more mobile less ware and tear .

[yu shan]

shang wu, flem

I must agree, this "jade ring" stance as taught in PL is very uncomfortable. I tend to stretch it out a bit, nothing like Master Zhang`s though, his is way too low. And is very susceptible to a sweep. This one does not hurt my knees, but I to have altered a bit.

I agree, Master Shr is one voice, happy to hear the love. I`m always willing to learn whats out there. The world is our oyster.

[flem]

Actually, and I hate to say this among die hard traditionalists, but Bruce Lee got it right, probably from mantis, I don't know.

[18elders]

when i met master shr for the first time and told him i learned some sets from manster zhang he asked to see them.
When i did the stance he asked about them and then swept me on my ass. He then showed me the way he does the stance and told me to get back into it. He swept me with the same power as the first and i didn't go down.
Also the stretched out version defeats part of the purpose of the stance during application.

Yes Master shr is one man but he is the voice of about 40 masters or more that he spent his life training with so i think i would tend to go with his word.
I think it is easy for us to change things because we don't like it or it is easier as compared to doing it the way it has been done and perfected over hundreds of years.