Judo throws vs. Mantis throws

[sayloc]

Great post seven star.

[Three Harmonies]

Everyone should listen to Seven Star, because regardless of how bad ass you think you are....you WILL end up on the ground. Trust me. Or don't........

Jake

[Oso]

waddayamean????? sevenstar is just a judohobo guy who's never trained any REAL traditional gung fu.














































ok, ya'll realize that's just so totally a joke.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Reggie1
It's just like submissions in BJJ. I'm sure nearly all quality BJJ blue belts could turn one of their submissions into something much worse without having to practice it all the time. The difference between somebody tapping out to a heel hook and blowing their knee out with a heel hook is just a matter of force.

Nope... the difference is how soon you tap. Unless you are rolling with someone you outclass by quite a bit, submissions are all applied hard. You let go as soon as the opponent taps. If he doesn't tap soon enough, often times he will have his joint injured.

[Reggie1]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Nope... the difference is how soon you tap. Unless you are rolling with someone you outclass by quite a bit, submissions are all applied hard. You let go as soon as the opponent taps. If he doesn't tap soon enough, often times he will have his joint injured.

Cool--you'd know better than I would. So you really crank all of your submissions at full force? All the time?

[SevenStar]

most grapplers could probably tell you at least one story of how they've been injured from not tapping soon enough. A year or two ago (I'll find out which competition it was) a guy got his bicep muscle torn from not tapping to a bicep slicer. A guy in my class to this day can't straighten his arm because his arm popped and he never went to the doctor or gave it proper time to heal. (idiot) but yeah, things happen.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Three Harmonies
Everyone should listen to Seven Star, because regardless of how bad ass you think you are....you WILL end up on the ground. Trust me. Or don't........

Jake

Basically.

[MightyB]

that doing judo has made my mantis throws better. I've found several instances where the movements were the same--- movements in the mantis forms that are the same as throws that I'm learning in judo. Like N's description of Tiao Toshi. There's a ton more like that.

I've read Robert Smith's stuff and agree that Judo and Shuai Chaio are basically the same, except Judo has foot sweeps in randori.

[Three Harmonies]

I would not go too far saying that Judo and Shuai Chiao are the same. While I certainly agree that throws are either done right or wrong regardless of style....their are many stylistic differences. But I will not argue that they are similar!

Cheers
Jake

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Reggie1
Cool--you'd know better than I would. So you really crank all of your submissions at full force? All the time?

Unless your sparring partner is at a much lower level than you are, you will usually be working as hard as you can to get the submission. The key to not getting hurt is the person who is caught knowing when to tap and the person applying the submission letting go as soon as the tap occurs.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Three Harmonies
I would not go too far saying that Judo and Shuai Chiao are the same. While I certainly agree that throws are either done right or wrong regardless of style....their are many stylistic differences. But I will not argue that they are similar!

Cheers
Jake

quite similar. The way I got into judo was through shuai chiao. I was training with a group of guys that live several hours away from me, and one of them reccomended that I train judo since there is plenty of good judo in my area. when we do get to train together, they show me the differences between the judo and sc ways of doing various throws, as he's a 1st dan in judo as well.

[Three Harmonies]

Who did you train SC with?
Jake

[SevenStar]

some guys in chicago who are affiliated with dr. brian wu and david lin.

[wiz cool c]

For Mantis throws to be as effective as Judo they would have to pratice them about an hour each class with at least a 1\2 hour of free sparring with throws 5 days a week. This is what judo people do. How often do you guys practice your throws in mantis?

[BeiTangLang]

Originally posted by wiz cool c
For Mantis throws to be as effective as Judo they would have to pratice them about an hour each class with at least a 1\2 hour of free sparring with throws 5 days a week. This is what judo people do. How often do you guys practice your throws in mantis?

In the context of your statement, you are absolutely correct; however, the the mantis throws themselves are quite usefull and effective.