Pong Lai stance

[Tainan Mantis]

On another thread was made mention of the stance of Shi Zhengzhong.
First I want to clarify if it is indeed this stance that the conversation is about.

[Tainan Mantis]

Another picture from his lanjie form.
This stance is similar except that it is higher up.
More importantly is that it is used for different occasions.

The very low stance being that type of takedown of controlling the leg and arm at the same time.

[yu shan]

Thank you Tainan Mantis for the photos. The way John taught me... the back leg is at 45 degrees off of front leg, knees about a fist apart, front leg foot turned in. Differant from what I see here, I did see a photo of Li HongJie in the stance I described. More tight and with this back leg at a peculiar angle. Thanks for the thread.

[Oso]

sweet.

Tainan, from my limited experience w/ Pong Lai I have come to reason that this stance, in it's higher/taller version, is sort of our general 'neutral' fighting stance.

As we transition into working single techniques out of drills and two person forms I'm working with this stance the most.

Also for free sparring.


Am I way off base?

[Oso]

oh, do you by chance have a pic of Master Shi in a 7 star posture?
similar to the well known pic of Master Kui.

thanks

[yu shan]

Oso

This is my fav stance, just had to change slightly.

One of my students spent the summer in Taiwan. He came back using this jade ring stance in 18 Elders form. Before we used a Dengshan shi, I like this substitution with jade ring stance better.

[Three Harmonies]

So are you guys calling this your Yu Huan Bu (Jade Ring Stance)? We call this (ours is not as tight) Xiao Deng Shan Bu (Small Mountain Climbing Stance).
Just curious. Great pics!

Cheers
Jake

[Oso]

yu shan...yea, I like it too. it's something I've been utilizing as a fighting stance for years. Just trying to correlate.

Jake,
yea, I really liked the way it is used in your BYTT. What's in a name?

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

I may be way off base, a hazard of thinking for myself too much, but I feel there should be a fair amount of comfort in your stances.

Each person is unique so their stances should be slightly modified according to ability. However, this should only be done after intense training in the 'proper' way (for that style) and should happen naturally.

Bottom line for fighting is if you aren't comfortable with your stances then you're fighting yourself as well as your opponent.

BTW, there are pros and cons to each variation. Stabilizing the lead leg against a sweep will create a weak point somewhere else that can be exploited.

[Oso]

HLL, I agree completely.

For me this stance is very comfortable though a fair amount of leg strength is needed because of both knees being bent. We do some plyometric drills with this stance as well as static (isometric) stance training.

I personally weight both feet evenly in this stance and the ability to shift weight quickly from one to the other is paramount. This is, to me, a truly 3 dimensional stance. Quick movement front/back, left/right and up/down.

[Oso]

I posted this pic elsewhere for laughes but then got to looking at it.

notice the stance. actaully more like Jake's version than the pong lai version.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Interesting but he's just lunging, not actually settling into a stance while executing a technique.

And I'm not sure saying you posted a pic for laughs and that it looks like Jake's stance will score you any points the next time you meet up with him.

But we all know what you mean.

[mantis108]

I have the good fortune of seeing Tainan in action using these stances in person. It is indeed very inspiring. I have to agreed with Tainan that they are for different purposes. But there is a correlation between them.

I basically consider both of them Xiao Shi (minor stance). The taller stance is somewhat like the 7 stars "middle stance". The lower one is pretty much the norm for most PM. I have seen pictures of Zhang De Kuai doing both stances. So clearly the height issue isn't about age. It is more about the function IMHO. Also there are subtle differences between GM Zhang and Shrfu Shr's stances, most notably in the taller stance. There is a very subtle hint of White Crane mechanics in Shrfu Shr's taller stance. Incidently, the taller stance in the picture is used as a platform for issuing an one inch type of punch. This is very unique to Mimen Tanglang. Sometimes I have to wonder could there have been a real southern roots in northern Tanglang?

This is indeed a great thread on Ponglai Stance and thanks for sharing that Tainan.

Mantis108

[Oso]

LOL, He is I, circa 1984

my thoughts on this stance from up thread were that it's not a stance you necessarily 'settle in' to. (not mocking your word usage) but a good neutral fighting stane.

I'm lunging, but out of the stance forward.

[Oso]

Sometimes I have to wonder could there have been a real southern roots in northern Tanglang?

mind that I've only seen the barest bit of mimen from pong lai but I wonder at a similarity to wing chun myself. I also studied a southern five animal system called lung shou pai which had similar movement inside the doors....just musing on my part, I still have much to learn.