rooted vs. mobile

[MonkeySlap Too]

Deeper means better root for beginners. Structurally, certain deep postures automatically align you better with gravity - so it seems 'natural' that this means there is an automatic correlation between deep stances and 'rootedness.'

Which there both is and isn't. As your training advances, you learn to maintain 'rootedness' even when upright - and it the actions of force upon you or an action you are taken that determines the 'direction' of rootedness.

Being able to sustain this feeling into reality means coordinating your structure, breath, mind, in a plethora of different ways. I make no bones about being out of shape due to my work responsibilities, yet this 'root' gives me a strength that is deceiving compared to how I look right now.

In my school, 'root' is not to be confused with compression. Boxers, FWIW don't have 'root' in the same sense - at least not on purpose. Compression does take advantage of the root path, but is not 'rootedness' - at least how my school defines it.

Then you need to consider substantia and insubstantial. Personally, I'm a big beleiver in footwork to control distance. Wether you wait and bait, or dance and confuse depends more on your oponnent than on your personal reference. But from my experience, you can maintain 'structural alignment' without having to be fully 'rooted.' - nor is it always advantageous to be so.

I'm splitting hairs here, so i hope it makes sense...

[red5angel]

In my school, 'root' is not to be confused with compression. Boxers, FWIW don't have 'root' in the same sense - at least not on purpose. Compression does take advantage of the root path, but is not 'rootedness' - at least how my school defines it.

Actually I like that explanation. Soemthing hasn't completely sat right with me and the idea that boxers "root"

[SevenStar]

Actually I like that explanation. Soemthing hasn't completely sat right with me and the idea that boxers "root"

something like what? the fact that they don't know they do it? sport guys do alot of things you see tma do - peng, borrowing, yielding, etc. but they are not named, merely part of good technique.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Yes and no.


It all comes down to varying degrees. Although I agree with your statement overall. There are many things that are just the way they are, but at the same time there can be significant differences.

[SevenStar]

Yes and no.


It all comes down to varying degrees. Although I agree with your statement overall. There are many things that are just the way they are, but at the same time there can be significant differences.

why do you say the boxer example is more of a demonstration of compression, rather than root?

[MonkeySlap Too]

Okay, here is how I use the jargon:

Root: maintaining a connection to the ground, via a state of 'relaxed tension, and specific skelatal structure alignments, enabling you to draw movement from the gua.

Compression: "squeezing, or gripping" the ground so you can work against it - expand to create force. EVERYBODY in almost every sport uses compression in some way or another.

Boxers use it all the time in almost every punch - if they were trained well. But boxers do *not* use 'root'. To me 'root' is the building block for 'peng'.

You can argue it, but I had a pro boxing gym in my old club. I love boxing. But boxing does not have this idea... it isn't relevant to what they are trying to do.

Mind you, this is jargon from my teaching... I try to create a consistent, defineable set of language based on the stuff I've been taught, so others might have different ideas.

[SevenStar]

okay - I can see why you said compression. initially, when I read that, I was thinking about the spine.


as for movements of the gua though, what is this structural alignment? throwing the cross and hook involve opening and closing the gua. would you say they root somewhat when they punch?

[MonkeySlap Too]

Yes, but you are stretching to say it is the same. The difference in emphasis is as great as between ballet and long distance running. Different ai priori assumptions, different training focus. Similar gross movements.

[MonkeySlap Too]

would you say they root somewhat when they punch?

REPLY: Using my jargon, no.

[Becca]

the lower your stance is, the wider your legs will be, typically. this means that you are ALOT easier to off balance - just in a different direction from your current strong point. it's hard to push you backward, but quite easy to take you at a diagonal angle. How quickly can you readjust your feet? that's when we start talking about how rooted you are...

Depends on which deep stance you are in... There is more than just horse. The point of learning to move between stances is imortant because there is more than one. And if the deep stance is not rooted, than the student has failed to grasp just what the heck they are s'posed to be doing. There is no other practical purpose for deep stance work other than to learn rooting. As a side note:

It hsa everything to do with A) how well the root is held, B) how stiff thier footwork is, and C) wether their opponant is sensitive enough to spot a break in thier root and exploit it before the root can be re-attained.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Becca said:
"Depends on which deep stance you are in"

Reply: No it doesn't. Any stance by nature of being deeper gives you better levers - the only thing that changes is the directions at which you are vulnerable.

Becca said:
"There is no other practical purpose for deep stance work other than to learn rooting."
REPLY: This is not correct either. Deep postures and footwork facilitate most Shuai techniques and combinations. They have great utility in application, just not when you are standing across from your opponent. There are more uses too...

[SevenStar]

Depends on which deep stance you are in... There is more than just horse. The point of learning to move between stances is imortant because there is more than one. And if the deep stance is not rooted, than the student has failed to grasp just what the heck they are s'posed to be doing. There is no other practical purpose for deep stance work other than to learn rooting. As a side note:

actually, it refers to all stances. And the horse hadn't even crossed my mind. I was specifically thinking about a bow and arrow stance when I made that post.

and, like the b@stard said, there are multiple uses for deep stances.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I think I'm going to just change my name officially...

[Becca]

Becca said:
"Depends on which deep stance you are in"

Reply: No it doesn't. Any stance by nature of being deeper gives you better levers - the only thing that changes is the directions at which you are vulnerable.

7* said "the lower your stance is, the wider your legs will be, typically". This statement does make it directly matter which of the extreme low stances you are in. Your legs are in no wasy spred wide in twisted, cat or san shou...

Becca said:
"There is no other practical purpose for deep stance work other than to learn rooting."
REPLY: This is not correct either. Deep postures and footwork facilitate most Shuai techniques and combinations. They have great utility in application, just not when you are standing across from your opponent. There are more uses too...

Didn't say they didn't have lots of uses, but when talking to a grappler, you get your point across better if you put it in thier terms.

BTW, there are more uses for rooting than while faced off. Every thing you listed uses the deep stances to teach rooting, as rooting is a major part of most things, from walking on ice to sertain chi gong techniques.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Becca, SEvenstar said:
"the lower your stance is, the wider your legs will be, typically. this means that you are ALOT easier to off balance - just in a different direction from your current strong point. "
The operative words being 'typically' and 'different direction. Seven is pretty well educated, so perhaps I inferred more than wa there but I doubt it. You interpeted him talking about a horse stance - he wasn't. You also said:

"There is no other practical purpose for deep stance work other than to learn rooting."

You said this because he was a grappler? How does that make sense?

Honestly, I just jumped in to help clarify some things that were incorrect coming from my perspective. They still are.

Oh, and I was using irony when I was talking about standing across from your opponent.