Of Martial Arts and Liberty

[Ming Yue]

I was following this with interest. Initially it sounded like a big advertisement for her blog agenda, but I too hoped this would go somewhere. Perhaps she hasn't been challenged to this degree yet and is formulating a response. I was pleased to see SPJ and TaiChi Bob jump in, nice counterperspective.

Give her some time, she may be back...

[ZIM]

Interesting.

I don't see as many problems with mixing politics and martial arts, partly because so many of our arts were founded for the expressed purpose of upholding various political positions.

That said, it isn't seen so much nowadays. In the West, it seems the import of MAs was done with an emphasis on other aspects [religion, philosophy] possibly because some arts came in on the coat-tails of that larger interest for the first generation of teachers.

Speculation, I'll admit.

All of that said, one may agree or not with the particular viewpoint, but nothing stops you from forming an all-Lefty MA association or whatever. As a Libertarian, I suspect Melissa would have no problem whatever with that.

Might make for some awesome tourneys.

[norther practitioner]

I think we scared her away....

[Yum Cha]

God, give me strength to accept the things I cannot change, and to fight like hell against the things I can...

I'll bite....I love this kinda Sh1t.

Firstly, what sense is it in discussing MA when this post wasn't about MA. It was a self-promo for a right-wing blogger.

There are those who believe that in doing what is best for themselves, that they are dutifully riding Adam Smith's invisible hand and making the world a better place. Competition and self-interest bring about the best allocation of scarce resources for the betterment of society.

There are others that believe that human beings are not resources with a market value, and that they need a more managed allocation based upon need. That consensus, debate and compromise are the tools to measure the need and distribute the resources. Thy Brother's keeper.

Unfortunately, it appears education seems to be the province of the latter, and the enemy of the former.

To whit,

German National Socialism (NAZI) is "Socialism?" BWAAhahahahahahhhhh. I'm surprised more people didn't regurgitate on that. Why not just wear a sign around your neck that says, "I'm with stupid" and an arrow pointing up? I spent most my young adulthood in Germany with forces there to clean up that mess. Let me give you the education you should have had if you had graduated high school, if indeed you did.

You see, Nazi's were Facists, the antithesis of Socialists. Hitler, Mussolini and their "Mit Machers" were intent on binding government and corporations into a "benevolent" (ha!) totalitarian entity that would control the economy for the good of the leaders and their cadre, essentially managing the population as market resources. Sure, pump a few quick Reich Marks into their pockets, fire up a few industrial jobs building weapons, unite them against a common foe (the Jews, based upon visceral religious differentiations) and take them to war without a peep, you know, the Chosen People, preemptive self defense.....

So, by those criteria, by that simple example, do we see any parallels? Are you trying to say the Bush Government is Socialist too? BWAHAHAHahahahah.

Back in your Bloox.

So, based upon this total demonstration of ignorance, or worse, a badly veiled attempt to tar with a tainted brush, what else is your self-promotional diatribe worth? Probably just as little as your vain attempts to study MA. Be GONE! Good riddance to such garbage. Go back to your blogg where you belong, preach to the choir and go home feeling good about your self centered, greedy, grubby little life of avarice. Life Coach? I wonder if Goebbles ever considered himself a "Life Coach"...

Any reasonable individual knows that neither extreme is worthy, that there is a middle ground that will work the most good for the most people.

There are of course, many many people who are not interested in the greatest good, they are interested in their own "Lord of the Flies" preditation upon those whom they can overcome. Thus was the first confederation of spirits formed, to counter this Survival of the Fittest feral mentality.

Sure I lean Liberally, but I have conservative sympathies as well. I run a business. There is no granola in my home, no picture of Stalin over my hearth, no Fox on my TV and no Moore in my Video Collection. Its not about politics, its about perpetuation of ignorance in guise of knowledge, of self interest in guise of benevolence, of hate, racism and other sundry xenophobia in guise of responsibility.

Why the subterfuge, propaganda and misinformation? Lemmings? No, its because knowledge is power, ignorance is a weakness, evil preys on weakness and constantly must diffuse the light of truth. Make no mistake, true evil does exist.

I don't mind conflicting politics, that's the way its meant to be. If we are ever to have an informed debate on the values of our society, conservative and liberal, on change to meet a new world order, on TRUE Liberty and democracy, we can't afford such wolfs in sheeps clothing, managing linguistics, mis-informing with half-truths and short-sighted jingoistic song and dance, and worst of all, breeding separation, segregation and self interest. Gladstone and Disreali set the benchmark, and none have yet found their equal. Am I unreasonable? Well, lets have some reason and we'll see!

Just to perpetuate the topic a bit further, are there any mathematics/economics gurus out there that can succinctly explain why John Nash won the Nobel prize, what it was he proved? (He's the guy the book and movie "A Beautiful Mind" was written about).

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Melissa
But it seems like schools are their own worst enemies ( aren't we all! ). At best, with any school I've tried, it always seemed like a 60/40 situation, at best 70/30, where I liked most of what was going on, but had significant problems with the other part.

In anyone with experience of martial arts, or as she says the workplace, I would say this could just as well be indicative of holding an extreme point of view which is therefore incompatible of fulfilling social relationship norms on an objective basis. You could counter that this would be losing your liberty if you felt you had nothing in common with the people surrounding you. I would say it's normal human give and take, and that without the objectivity and even a little bit of compromise you are not holding a libertarian point of view, but one of someone who wants the freedom but is not prepared to pay for it, at any level. This would mean you are also incapable of recognising freedoms in other people if they don't conform to your preconceived notion of freedom... which means that in turn you are following a knee-jerk pattern of belief without substantiation: a slave to your own ideal of freedom.

However, since this woman has only seven years tops experience in somewhat dubious MA, and her job is one of those phony 'leadership' jobs, advising the very sheep she despises who wouldn't exist if it weren't for her kind of dualistic point of view, I would just put this point of view down as part of a surprisingly scant life-experience (also based on her declaration of and wearing of her age as a badge as if it denotes some kind of useful experience) and naivity.

... There then follows a long and obvious, and mildly interesting comment on the state of MA studentship since 911.

Well for one thing, the economy also took a dive after 9/11 and for most people, putting food on the table is a much higher priority than paying for martial arts training. The jobs just haven't been there, from what I've seen since 9/11. The Sunday Denver Post jobs section is pathetic, only about 2 pages now? I can remember times when it was maybe 15-20 pages.

Does anyone have the GDP for the last couple of years , or any other economic indicators? I'd be surprised if the economy has really taken such a dive. The dollar is weak for any number of reasons, including foreign exports of arms and training to countries like Syria by companies like Blackwater and Dyncorp but this doesn't effect the 'normal' person. Nor does it seem to effect the guys in charge with their $40 mill inaugurations and their huge unnaccountable contracts for destroying and rebuilding countries.

What will effect the 'normal person' however, and their pockets, is the climate of fear. While I'd guarantee that gun sales and home security sales have gone up, agreeing with Melissa on sheeplike mentalities, I would also suggest that the job market is always sluggish in times of political stress, and an unsure world. Thus the blame most certainly doesn't lie with these legions of socialists she says are leading the country, but with... er, the countries' leaders?

There are all manner of reasons why the job market could be slow: one of them is 911, some of them will be decisions by the current admin, very few of them will be hordes of socialists with their tacit support of international terrorists.

But I think it also has to be understood in the political context. Socialism has been slowly taking over this country for the last 40 years ( some would say twice that long ), in the guise of liberalism. A propaganda machine has been at work, with most of the news media at the center of it, and they've been making most Americans less independent and more like servile sheep.

This is evidence of really being cracked, of really following knee-jerk nonsense without having the sense to make one's own judgments. The old communist scourge of the press... well I've also heard a lot about the rightwing Zionist stranglehold on the media, and the ultra-right Christian extremist media... and I tell you what I believe... something a lot more mundane and not very fun for people who watched too many sci-fi movies in the fifties, that the media is largely controlled by average, boring, selfish moneymakers, with more than a modicum of influence from the current government and the big businesses who are part of the same corporations. There is no conspiracy: don't watch the skies, watch your own attitudes!

Summing up the crux of this socialist scourge nonsense: where the hell are they? Are they really so clever as to remain completely hidden? Or are they even more cleverly pretending to be the neo-cons in the govt?!

What was the message sent after 9/11? It wasn't that everyone should arm and train in martial arts, so they could defend themselves, it was that the responsibility for protecting us doesn't lie with the independence of the individual, in the truest original American sense.

It's really interesting that she says this. If I remember rightly, most MA schools reported a surge of membership after 911, as did gun clubs and sales. So what the clubs are now seeing is the return to the usual sluggish norm of fad hobbyists, themselves a higher than average occurance in mA schools. It's the turnover that's higher, not the drop-off rate. To many MA school owners who have not had any business or economic training and don't know how to keep or read records this may seem otherwise. Plus, even to those school owners who have attended some basic business classes at night-school, they would have had been taught the American standard business school practice of maximization of profits or turnover (McDojo business practice in MA terms) rather than one of the other more sensible business models leading to optimization and a more sustainable business plan than 'get-rich-quick'. Of course, I've never been to business school in the States, and I'm guessing, but based on talking with and dealing with a lot of American businessmen and their evangelistic business preaching models.

No, the message is that the government is the sole shepherd responsible for protecting the sheep from wolves. The government should spend massive amounts of money on what's really an impossible task anyway.

Another obvious perspective, and one which I can largely agree with, except that the govt themselves were largely responsible for this POV with their media-circus of 'who was responsible' when all the time the general public didn't really believe that anyone was going to be held responsible... sure they can say this went wrong and that went wrong and although ultimately it wasn't really anyone's fault but the terrorists' there were some obvious miscarriages of justice, shady dealings and acts of gross incompetance on the US side that didn't help matters. Buuuut who cares? Nobody was held accountable; hell even the Pres (the son of Saddam Hussein's Number One Supporter, Business and Military advisor) got back in. There is never accountability in govt, but never before had it been so low.

The people are ready to give up anything, pay any price, ...but we have lost more freedom.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

So this next bit above is perfectly OK. I agree. But to associate it with some mythical socialist scourge is to let the govt off the hook again.

I've observed in previous posts to this blog, that it seems like the global socialists are working symbiotically with Al Qaeda to bring down the west, because it serves their common interests.

This woman knows nothing about socialism, and nothing about Al Qaeda.

Socialists have always known that they had to destroy to conquer. ( Hitler, a "Nationalist Socialist" knew it too. ) They have to bring the whole system to it's knees, and then take it over, like they did in Germany, Russia, China, Cuba, Vietnam, and so many other places. So who better to help them with that than Al Qaeda?

Again, paranoid fantasy. Too many B-movies. As already pointed out Hitler was not a socialist, although there were certain similarities with his political PsoV, nor was there a global conspiracy in these other places. Of course some of these people supported each other, but the so-called socialists who were in power in these countries often had very different agenda and were only forced together by lack of dialog and dualistic policies.

So all the while, the liberals ( socialists ) ... Dependent on the shepherd to protect them, as servile sheep.

This bit's so 1950s it's embarrassing. and saying that liberals and socialists are the same is again naive, plain stupid, or just ignorant.

Look at UK, where it's practically illegal to defend oneself, and certainly not if there's a risk of hurting the criminal.

As if she is not ignorant enough, now she's trying to show us some global ignorance. I wonder if she can show us the cases where this has been upheld? Or can she show us the law? The UK law on self defence is one of reasonable force, the same as in many of the States. The Tony Martin case to which she is probably referring as that's the typical knee-jerk case study (er... single case example) for this argument is so full of holes I could wash my vegetables in it.

Another gunban, more laws that say people can't defend themselves.

Where?
...cont

edited for format

[Mr Punch]

Must just be my unusual perspective, I suppose.

Not especially unusual, or was she being ironic? Certainly not unusual enough for me to want to increase the traffic on her blogs by actually clicking on one. And I'm with Red, she doesn't seem to have the balls to stick around and discuss now she's presented her view... just another blogger trolling for hits for her soapbox site.

Just thought I'd offer her a bit of a bashing, cos everyone else round here suddenly seems very polite for some reason. I'm going to do what I've just accused her of doing to, which is to bugger off after having posted a lot of passive-aggressive tripe, without being around to defend it! shrug! What the hey! I'm busy!

paraphrasing from Melissadreams... original spirit of america... dreaming... star wars... objective libertarian... dreams... jedi... etc

There is no conspiracy: don't watch the skies, watch your own attitudes!

[scotty1]

Look at UK, where it's practically illegal to defend oneself, and certainly not if there's a risk of hurting the criminal.

Not true. We can hit burglars with ashtrays if we want.

I think everyone's covered the rest of your post.

[red5angel]

there you go Mat, injecting common sense and an objective view on the subject. Shame on you

[MoreMisfortune]

everybody should just question more ofently
what is really the use for sober phylosophical discussion?

none

carnival facts
well we were at this hotel. the white blonde receptionist was very cold and mean acting/looking.
so we began nicknaming her "Hitlers wife". Thanks to my cousin who likes history a lot that evolved to "Panzer tank"
we did this tour at the city on a van. the driver looked like a sort of hippy or ex-hippy (the hair, the beard, the slow talk, "nature" blah blah).
but at some point talking to my cousin he said his dad was a high rank on the military, from back in the dictaroship days. he commented something to the effect that things were much better and more functional in the country in those dicatorship days.
my cousin says he just agreed, you dont wanna risk arguing with that weird folk
that wasnt enough, at some point later the ex-hippy went further into his contradictory existance of being a hippy and a totalitarist nazi at the same time
he wondered and asked to my cousin "what would the world would be like if the germans had won WWII" before my cousin could ponderate on the subject he answered himself "the world would be a lot more well organizated" the not-so-ex-hippy said.

[MoreMisfortune]

i forgot to add that i too find funny hitler being considered a "socialist"
lol i think its pure gold

now i gotta go, im hungry and i dont want the baby meat to burn

i also forgot i shouldnt be saying anything at all since im sober

[ZIM]

Originally posted by MoreMisfortune
i forgot to add that i too find funny hitler being considered a "socialist"
lol i think its pure gold

Not that it matters or anything, but just to throw it out:

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." (Speech by Hitler of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

[red5angel]

"the world would be a lot more well organizated

This is actually probably true, but that doesn't mean it would be a better place.


The Nazis called themselves socialists, hence "Nazi", and thats' where people get confused.

[tug]

I think we scared her away....

Uhh, yeah.

[MoreMisfortune]

Originally posted by red5angel
This is actually probably true, but that doesn't mean it would be a better place.


The Nazis called themselves socialists, hence "Nazi", and thats' where people get confused.

exactly dude, he was pointing out as it being a good/better world solution
people are born confused, but this is just ridiculous
come on, nobody needs to be a scholar to know the difference

[rubthebuddha]

The Nazis called themselves socialists, hence "Nazi", and thats' where people get confused.

and what does DPRC stand for again?