the need for the existence of evil..

[SPJ]

Good points.

[SPJ]

It is all interesting that the dependent origination of goodness on existence of evils???

Let me step back a bit.

Chinese version of Jack and the bean stalk.

If you seed a melon, you grow a melon. Zhong Gua De Gua.

If you sow a corn, you reap a corn. Zhong Do De Do.

If you do some goodness, you will harvest goodness.

If you implant evil, the evil will come back to you.

So what are you planting or seeding in your life?

[FuXnDajenariht]

good replies... ****ing 'a' .

i dont think i can add much more on it. i think we're all basically in agreement that morality and therefore the "concept" of good and evil are subjective. an imperfect ability to reason will always create an imperfect idea of cause and effect. "evil" being an unavoidable and necessary effect of free will as some of you stated before.

the concept of evil as a separate entity would only create endless chaos in my opinion (also stated before). i dont believe nature leaves anything to chance. meaning the laws and principles that govern nature. "evil" is caused by ignorance and indifference to the free will of other humans (or any living thing). "evil" as a separate entity would preclude the need for evolution in my -opinion-. life is lived to experience. experience is needed to learn lessons. lessons are used to evolve beyond what you are. being trapped in the same cycles leads to hopelessness and nihilism. it would make existance pointless. you dont need to believe in god to see this i dont think. it also leads to unaccountability..

does that make sense? lol its 4am here so bare with me....

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Duality is the nature of existence.. the labels we assign to the duality are subjective..

There are many examples of groups of people that consider themselves "good" seeking isolation from a corrupt society.. but, after a time these "good" people begin to divide their group into another duality of "more good and less good", finally setting up another duality of preferences.. it is the nature of existence.. as was said, nothing exists except by comparison to something else.. even the basic concept of One singular being ("God", Allah, Tao, etc..) exists as compared to that which does not exist (Yin/Yang, light/dark, etc..).. it is only in the mind/perception of we, the observers, that values are assigned to these natural conditions..

Be well..

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Vash
Evil is the man who rapes children.

Evil is the person who starts wars where none was needed.

Evil is the woman who breaks her children's spirit, who takes their identity.

Evil is the man who beats his wife.

Evil is the unrestrained, absolute expression of destruction - destruction without rebirth.

Evil is the lack of knowledge and the drive to gain such.

"I stuck around in Saint Petersburg when I saw it was time for a change. I killed the Czar and his minsters; Anastasia screamed in vain.
I rode a tank and held a general's rank when the blitzkreig raged and the bodies stank."

[TaiChiBob]

"Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name"

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
"Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name"

Er, pleased to meet you too... it's Bob isn't it?

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Vash
Evil is the man who rapes children.

Evil is the person who starts wars where none was needed.

Evil is the woman who breaks her children's spirit, who takes their identity.

Evil is the man who beats his wife.

Evil is the unrestrained, absolute expression of destruction - destruction without rebirth.

You see, that's just a load of crap!

Evil is the lack of knowledge and the drive to gain such.

And that's the reason why!

Although, I would qualify that last one as stupid, not necessarily evil. Some stupid people can't help it; so without their free choice, they can't be classed as evil. Just look at Red!

Eg, if you execute someone for raping children, without trying to find out why, that's maybe stupid; and if that knowledge could have gone towards preventing someone else from doing the same thing, that's bordering on evilly negligent (although I appreciate this prevention is possibly impossible in the US but in a small state like the UK perfectly feasible).

These things you mentioned are personifications of evil, not evidence of evil, or even an evil force. To anthropocentrize evil is a contrived and unhelpful construct. As I said before and somebody else (MY?) agreed, evil is not an entity, it's a human construct.

[Merryprankster]

Evil is not ignorance.

An amoral person cannot be held morally accountable for their actions.

Similarly, you can't educate immorality away.

Note that I am not concerned with the framework of morality here. That is, it doesn't matter which morality you choose.

Here's a question - is a sociopath immoral or amoral? I tend to think amoral. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be locked up mind you. Public good plays a role as well.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Evil is not ignorance.

Thank you. As I said:

me
Although, I would qualify that last one as stupid, not necessarily evil. Some stupid people can't help it; so without their free choice, they can't be classed as evil.

Merry
An amoral person cannot be held morally accountable for their actions.

Yep. Again that's what I was saying, which is why I used the words 'bordering on evilly negligent' rather than any reference to ignorance.

Negligence (ie the refusal to act for the good or what you see as the good on prior information) is as close to evil as I would allow my definitions to go.

Merry
Here's a question - is a sociopath immoral or amoral? I tend to think amoral. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be locked up mind you. Public good plays a role as well.

Here's a question before I go to bed...

Evil is a force.
A man rapes and kills a family.
He is judged as evil.
Yet because evil is a force he can't have had any choice in his actions.
Therefore his actions are amoral, not evil?

If you believe in evil, you are absolving people of personal responsibility for their actions.

(In the same way, I do not agree with the death penalty, because you are giving people a get out... but that's another (oft-had!) thread.)

The answer to yours is amoral I'd say Merry. And therefore (****, these worms just look soooo tasty! ) should be locked up rather than snuffed out anyday.

[Merryprankster]

Interesting perspective on the death penalty. Practically, we make mistakes. One dead innocent person is one too many.

As far as evil not existing, I disagree. Evil exists. However, it's not a "force" looking for an actor. The actor commits evil.

Very different.

[red5angel]

Duality is the nature of existence..

duality is as real as Evil or Good is.

Similarly, you can't educate immorality away.

I'd have to disagree here Merry. Morality is a part of education. There is not natural morality, in my belief. To slightly contradict myself however, I believe quite a few morals to be derived from our natural instinct for survival. However you have to educate to make members of a society understand what your particular morality is.

I don't believe in amorality. I believe even those who commit crimes understand that they are not moral in the eyes of the society they live in.


**** YOU JP!!!!!

[Merryprankster]

Morality is a part of education. There is not natural morality, in my belief. To slightly contradict myself however, I believe quite a few morals to be derived from our natural instinct for survival. However you have to educate to make members of a society understand what your particular morality is.

Ok, but that's not precisely my point. If a person is ignorant of a particular piece of the moral framework, you can't hold them accountable in a moral sense. You might ethically or legally, but can you hold them morally accountable? Did they make the choice knowing what they did was morally wrong?

If they didn't know, that's just ignorance. It's not a moral decision because it didn't require determining right and wrong.

Once they are educated what the framework is, then you can hold them morally accountable.

However, an immoral person won't care what the framework is. They will do whatever, whenever. That is my point. You cannot "educate away" evil/immorality, because immorality requires knowing the difference between right and wrong and doing wrong anyway. A wrong act out of ignorance is just ignorance, not immorality.

So you can educate away ignorance of the moral framework, but not immorality.

[SPJ]

Conscience is innate with your gene.

Meng Tzi said people are born with goodness.

Shun Tzi said people are born with evilness.

Educations and religions give you why and how you should love others like yourself. Greater love for your fellow citizen. Greatest love for God.

Because hatred and evils will bring destructions upon oneself. Because we are created by God. The wage of the sin is death.

Morality is a society or culture agreed upon "conduct" acceptable to all.

As TCB said it is a construct for the greater good for everyone in the society.

Morality is man made and so it can be changed.

Laws are more rigid. It dishes out punishments based on culture, "morality", interpretations of some "religions" etc.

It is all for the preservation of everyone as a whole.

Evil does not give birth to good. Good does not give birth to evil.

Good comes out from your gene of self preservation and common good for everyone else.

Evils beget evils.

The arbitration of right vs wrong is dependent on the dynamic flux of many factors as pointed out earlier.

---

[red5angel]

MP, figured you were heading that direction but decided to comment anyway, just in case.