ATTN Gene & the Shaolin Scholars:)

[diego]

Hello, I posted this on the main forum to get varied results, and posting it here cuz this is the main forum in relation to the topic...tho I am interested in kung fu being spiritual through any school..taoist to confucious etc

peep: Some say kungfu isn't spiritual
why do shaolin cats do it?

I don't know all the facts, but I'm wondering if any shaolin monks use kung fu as a vehicle for enlightenment...i know they do but I'm looking for historical data on those that did...any records of monks getting enlightened while punching and kicking?

the reason i'm asking this is because i feel Hiphop with it's four major elements of breakdance, rapping, graffiti and turntablism is kinda like a modern day shoalin kung fu...more on that later if any one is interested, but right now I just want to know more about kung fu being spiritual

I know in Lions Roar! Tibetan Kung Fu the monks used it as a vehicle through the crazy wisdom sect of bhuddism wich uses any means to get over samsara etcetc" quote diego from the main forum
Peace

[GeneChing]

Don't even think about enlightenment.

If it's not spiritual for you, it's not spiritual. To each their own. In Zen, any practice can be a meditation, so it has the potential to be spiritual.

[Shaolinlueb]

dude you ever see dragonball z and how they build up their spiritual qi?

thats all im saying

[Pk_StyLeZ]

im krillen
=)
sh dont tell anyone

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Pk_StyLeZ
im krillen
=)
sh dont tell anyone

if your krillan, then im the one who looks like krilla but with the weird third eye.!!!!

ssshh dont tell anyone.

[Pk_StyLeZ]

ya im krillen im sure
im bald and wear orange suits
=D
but i cant seem to throw the blue disk ball anymore
maybe im not enlightened enuff anymore..hmmm
i got delightened!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Wharg0ul]

if you want to think of it as a form of meditation in motion.

Although sorry to say, when I think of "hip-hop", I think more of a re-hashing of a mating ritual/dance than a medative excersise, but I guess YMMV

[PangQuan]

Ill go with gene on this. It depends on what your looking for in your training. As with the zen method, every moment is an opportunity to perfect oneself in daily events.

Kind of like, once you have done a form a thousand times or so, you dont need to "think" about the basic movement of your sequence so much, which gives you the chance to delve deeper into many different aspects of your life. Often when we practice, we subconciously put ourselves into a higher state of awareness. Mainly for safety and learning reasons. But once you have the feeling of normality with your "form" then you no longer need this higher awareness to focus on these aspects. Giving you the freedom to use this energy elsewhere. Moving meditation.

As for historical records...good luck with that. I dont think you will find anything that could be considered "concrete".

[diego]

legends would be cool to...i'm really trying to better understand how monks have balanced that peacefull meditation with the hardcore animal agression of martial art training...that's what i mean by hiphop and kung fu...punk rockers have a crazy vibe and they just spaz out...real hiphop heads have like a sniper vibe...a cool killer like a cat

i'm pretty good at chilling in zen under pressure, and when i pull out my hiphop aura i get like this calm-psycho vibe...like i'm tottally crazy but also completely polite...so i'm curious about the whole yinyang of shaolin martial training make sence?

[GeneChing]

not really. But FWIW, perhaps you should read Dharma Punx. It might offer what you're looking for...

[diego]

Originally posted by GeneChing
not really. But FWIW, perhaps you should read Dharma Punx. It might offer what you're looking for...

look at it like this...one monk does tea and flower arrangement meditations and is very peaceful...his student does the same thing and is very peaceful...but when he pulls out his broadsword or nunchukas and does his kung fu he turns into a monster...but not a spazzy scary monster as he is peaceful from years of tea ceremony...hiphop gives me an adrenaline rush that i haven't found anywhere else...not the standard stupid white kid listens to gangsta rap and feels aggressive making ****y motions in front of the mirror...no not that

i'm saying if you are hiphop and practise breakin and rhyming wich has an aggressive battle aura to it, the shiat turns you into a mental monster

my hopgar ape punches work with the same part of the brain which is why i guess i'm comparing shaolin to hiphop...i get a rush from practising the long arm swinging methods that i get from hiphop...but that's only if i've been training hard...hiphop all i have to do is turn on a song and my adrenaline starts elevating to where i get this crazy crystal clear focus that feels like something primal...if you ain't hiphop you prolly don't understand...especially if you into country cuz that shiat does not have that crazy-cool agro vibe like hiphop has...i think it has to do with hiphop blew up in the 80's when it was all about big guns and crack so that's why i don't get the same vibe from rock music and motown tracks...they all onsome 60's shiat...hiphop is like crazy digital auras and shiat.

you do know what i'm refferring to tho...think of a crazy monk who drinks and does kung fu while meditating and compare that to an old monk who stares at flowers everyday...you do tiger style like motions you start to get that tiger vibe in your attitude...what were some monks opinions on bridging that tiger vibe with the tea ceremony vibe? basically saying what happens to the brain when you bridge proper civil human consciousness with the primal agro vigor hidden in the brain that comes out sometimes kinda like the incredible hulk is what hiphop does to me...but it isn't fronting, i get this hella hardcore mind expansion and the best terminolgy i can think of to describe it is, it's like being cool gangsta.

[PangQuan]

I get what you mean, I used to be really heavy into the Punk and Hard Metal scene. I was always in the pit, once that first real heavy cord was hit, a wave would come over me and I was a totally different person, but at the same time I was totally under control. I would then take that and apply it to my skateboarding, put on the head phones listen to the metal and all of a sudden I could take the bigest drops and hit the gnarly rails. Now I dont really listen to music at all, I dont skateboard, I just do kung fu. But I take that killer instinct I developed through other means and apply it to my skills. Here is a quick legend for ya. Its Japanese.

There was once a great Samurai, no longer satisfied with the progression of his skills, as they seemed to not be going any further. He decided he would go to the temple to meditate before the god of war, in hopes that his path to higher enlightenment would be illuminated. After many hours of meditation, not a single path had made itself clear. As the samurai began to decend down the mountain path from the temple, a crazed monster leaped from the shadows to kill the samurai from behind. On a mere whim of unknown reason the samurai turned and drew his sword cutting the monster down in one fluid stroke. At that percise moment the god of war spoke to the samurai and gave him the enlightenment he sought. It was through his devoted studies of swordsmanship and zen that gave him the ability to react accordingly to the monsters attack, which in turn gave him the gift of enlightenment.

[PangQuan]

I am full of legends and neat stories. Just tell me when you want another.

[GeneChing]

Well ultimately, they say that there are no distinctions, so the gist of what you are saying is plausible. But this is the real danger zone of Zen - the no distinction problem. A lot of people use this as an excuse to say 'anything goes' and that misses the zen of it entirely. Zen is actually a very strict disipline. On the beginning level, it's important not to be deluded by the notion that it's all the same. There are bad roads and wrong paths. Distinctions must be made or you can get lost. There is structure in kung fu, just like there is structure in tea ceremony and flower arranging, and it's very strict. You can say that there's structure in hiphop too, but it's still very young, only a few decades at best. It's hard to compare to something with centuries of structure. There may be something to it, but we might not know for a few more centuries. Will hiphop live as long as tea ceremony? Our generation won't know.

[PangQuan]

Very good point. Would it be safe to assume that the methods involved within the mind are similar in regards to the outcome based on the practicing of each particular, oh, shall we say, art?