Taiji vs. White Crane, Macau 1954

[Shaolinlueb]

i thought they were pretty drunk in that fight.

[SevenStar]

I was the one that posted that clip... man it sucked...

[gfx]

You've not actually read the article have you? There is nothing fantastical about the fight description at all; nothing flowery, just who hit whom and when, how they were hit and what the effect was. And just as it started, it was all over.

It's just fiction, no need to get your panties in a twist. Again, if you'd read the article you'll find that Jin Yong's works are considered works of literature, not just regular pulp-fiction.

If you really want to know, I have in fact read the original Chinese newspaper article that described the fight BEFORE I saw the video.

I couldn't believe they were about the same event.

Why am I bitter? Because this is supposed to be THE article that sparked the whole Wuxia craze. I am bitter because it's based on such lies.

[HearWa]

Since the forum changes the search doesn't seem to go back beyond the start of the year, so I can't resurrect the previous thread on this topic.

Someone posted a link on another forum about a new book on Chinese martial arts literature (wuxia), which focuses on the acclaimed author Jin Yong. The author of the book is John Christopher Hamm, an assistant professor in the Department of Asian Languages and Literature, University of Washington.

Anyway, the first chapter is available as a PDF. What is interesting is a detailed section on the Taiji vs. White Crane "fight" that took place in Macau, 1954. This event seems to serve as the inspiration for a piece of writing in the "New School" of MA fiction. I don't know what he used as references, you'll need to buy the book for that I guess.

But he has all the names, dates, places, lead up, the event itself, and the aftermath. A short and diverting read. I've only ever heard the gossip about the fight, never actually any detail, so this is quite a good read.

NOTE: the event is described from page 3 onwards.

So you got a negative response on Martial Arts Planet and now you come to bug us about it? You could have at least changed a few words. http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...ad.php?t=28362

Just face it, the alleged "masters" couldn't fight worth garbage. Yet another display of alot of age old Kung Fu being talk, talk and more talk. This crap is impossible to respect.

[chris101]

can someone post the clip or tell me where to find it?

[lkfmdc]

a student last year brought in a then RECENT article on the so called "fight" and that one also tried to make it out into some deep, esoteric, real "secret" match that was profound and "kewl" (something wants to say the magazine was called Qi or something equally retarded)

people would be better served to stop trying to rationalize this pizz poor slap fest (I have guys with 3 months training who spar better than these so called masters fight) and try and improve themselves...

Heck, even Chan Hak Fu faced up to how BADLY he performed!!! Following this monstrasity he introduced sparring with boxing gloves... his students eventually learned to fight ....

[CFT]

So you got a negative response on Martial Arts Planet and now you come to bug us about it? You could have at least changed a few words. http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...ad.php?t=28362

Different audience. MAP tends to have a larger UK presence, whereas KFO is more USA oriented.

Just face it, the alleged "masters" couldn't fight worth garbage. Yet another display of alot of age old Kung Fu being talk, talk and more talk. This crap is impossible to respect.

The post was just to draw attention to some of the background surrounding the fight. At no point did I say that this was a brilliant example of Chinese martial arts. I couldn't even recognise who did what style, although others have said they could make the distinction.

The only respect that you could have given these two men were that they both put their reputations on the line, in a VERY public and publicised event, with very little defined monetary gain (AFAIK). However, both men performed particularly badly on the day, to such an extent that even a layman would not have said it was good kung-fu. How many teachers these days would expose themselves in such a manner, even if they were confident in their abilities, without a sizeable purse for the fight?

Prior to reading the article, the event was just a disjointed clip on the Internet. But now I know that one of the original purposes of the fight was to raise money for the victims of a particularly bad fire in a housing complex; nor was I aware of the build-up for the event - how it was in the public awareness ...

[Brad]

There's a couple links to the fight on this page:

http://www.chipellis.com/videos/Tung...deos.htm#Macao

[Machine]

Heck, even Chan Hak Fu faced up to how BADLY he performed!!! Following this monstrasity he introduced sparring with boxing gloves... his students eventually learned to fight ....

No kidding, they stopped what they were learning and started boxing! haha j/k

[ntc]

There is actually much more behind the fight than most people know about, primarily concerning MA politics in Macau, which I will not go into. I am Chinese, was born/raised in Macau, and am very aware of the fight. What I will say is that there really never was the possibility of both fighters going all out as the fight was stopped before either fighter really got into it. A lof of what actually did happen was just both people testing/checking the other one out. Then, when it finally looked like they were going to go at each other, the fight was stopped. Both were declared winners... no losers... ie, a draw. Both families avoided any humiliation and saved face.... like I said, more politics than anything behind the scene. Try not to read too much into the fight and all the media propaganda and whether they were true masters or not from your point of view, or how badly you could have whopped their butts, etc, etc, etc.

[DragonzRage]

"A lof of what actually did happen was just both people testing/checking the other one out."

No, what happened is that two guys who probably had very little fighting experience and poor training tried to take each other's heads off. They were not pulling their punches. That's why it looked so **** sloppy. Just look at the way they were swinging wildly! That's not how two traditionally trained kung fu masters "probe each other". If they were just probing each other in a traditional light contact slap sparring match then I bet both of them probably would've looked pretty technical. But without truly functional training, your MA structure will degenerate into poor brawling once you and your opponent start truly punching to knock each other out.

I know you're right that there were a lot of politics behind that match. But if you're trying to use that to imply that they were holding back their true deadly skills or something to that extent, then I call BS on that. To my understanding, it was just supposed to be a light sparring match with no winner at the end. It was not supposed to be a real fight...just something to benefit charity and get some good publicity for both sides. The reason it degenerated into a brawl is because the tai chi guy opened the bout by punching the other guy full out in the face. Whether he did this intentionally or not, I guess we'll never know. In any case, the other guy obviously got real pi$$ed off after that and so he started throwing back with full force as well. The result was that two supposed masters ended up duking it out and showing just how little they really knew about fighting. Whatever it started out as, it turned into a full out fight, with the possible exception that both men might've made a conscious effort not to gouge each other's eyes, etc.

I would gladly and confidently read into that fight that both men were not real fighters by any stretch of the imagination, and that many people on this board alone (including myself) would've beat both those guys senseless with one arm tied around our backs faster than you could say "dim mak".

[Sim Koning]

wow, that was the worst fight I have ever seen.

[PaiLumDreamer]

It looked really, really sloppy.

One guy would...just swing his leg to "kick"...It was the only thing he really did with his legs. The same guy would also like to punch the air. Blah...Made me sad.

The other guy did slightly better, but its still not saying much. They...flailed wildly. UGH. I wonder how they were taught? Who were they taught by?

Poor display of CMA, for sure.

[HearWa]

CFT: Gotcha. I didn't mean to come off so rudely.

---

Has anyone seen the famous cycler fight clip? It draws many interesting parallels to this video. I just wish I could find the link...

[David Jamieson]

hey guys, just for the fun of it, here is a boxing match from 1907!

http://www.open-video.org/details.php?videoid=4665

notice how they do lack keeping their guard up, but even still, this is almost 50 years before that macau match and both these guys would waste either Wu or Chan in a ring...with gloves....on a day when they were racked with explosive diarhea.