WT in UFC??

[anerlich]

.....(Anyone care to offer their insights on what you can try using to counter / escape the "big slam" after you've picked up?)

Not really, but Rickson managed the same thing in one of his matches in "Choke". Looks like he's going to take the mother of all slams, but somehow reverses it in mid-air and lands on top in side control. I'll spend a bot of time with the DVD, slow-mo and frame by frame thsi weekend and let you know what I find out

[lawrenceofidaho]

Hey guys (and gals),

I've got the Steve Falkner clips on disc (both demo and fight), but I can't find the thread that had the instructions on how to post.

Can someone help me out?

(The demo clip is about 1MB, and the fight clip is about 1.3 MB.)

Thanks.
-Lawrence

[Ernie]

Hey guys (and gals),

I've got the Steve Falkner clips on disc (both demo and fight), but I can't find the thread that had the instructions on how to post.

Can someone help me out?

(The demo clip is about 1MB, and the fight clip is about 1.3 MB.)

Thanks.
-Lawrence

big [L]
email it to me so i can put it in my [this is exactly what not to do file ]

if you send them to Phil he will put them up

hope all is well brother

[Vajramusti]

Lawrence- thanks for taking the trouble and sharing and I hope that Phil can put it up. I am fairly sure that it will show the error of a wc person beginning an encounter with a skilled fighter with a kick. Even when one makes mistakes there are things to learn by the partcipants and discerning observers.

[lawrenceofidaho]

Phil,

I don't have an address for you. Would you please PM it to me so I can send you the clips?

Thanks.



Ernie,

they're on their way to your mailbox........

-L

[Ultimatewingchun]

I remember seeing that fight. While it's true that beginning a fight with a kick can be risky business - just from the way he was standing and coming in - even if he didn't throw the kick - I think he would have been taken down easily.

Dealing with a possible shoot for a takedown changes the whole dynamics of fighting...in ways that "conventional" wing chun strategies and techniques don't really have answers to.

Sometimes simultaneous blocking, striking, and possibly sidestepping will work against a skilled grappler - and sometimes you have to throw the whole wing chun book out and use a wrestling maneuver to deal with takedown attempts.

If the grappler starts his shoot too soon - you can stay up on your feet and counter...but if he's skilled at closing (and especially if he's skilled at closing after he's thrown a strike as a set up)...then countering him using pure standup wing chun alone is a 50/50 proposition at best.

Not good odds.

Learning wrestling defenses (sprawls, crossfaces, etc.) is an absolute necessity in today's fighting world, imo.

[old jong]

If the grappler starts his shoot too soon - you can stay up on your feet and counter...but if he's skilled at closing (and especially if he's skilled at closing after he's thrown a strike as a set up)...then countering him using pure standup wing chun alone is a 50/50 proposition at best.

I agree that very good timing is required vs a good quality closing.But the setting up with a strike is another thing! Will a Wing Chun practitioner just raise his hands and do nothing while the guy is closing in to clinch or shoot?...IMO,the guy feint or strike and we,using Wing Chun principles and techniques,should not just raise the hands to create a good opening for the opponent but counter and attack ,preventing him from taking the advantage and putting him in a defensive situation.
As always,the key is being active instead of simply reactive.

But,I see nothing wrong in the sprawll,crossface and other similar things if necessary.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Nobody said anything about just raising the hands and creating openings for your opponent if he tries to close quickly for a grab and takedown...of course you wouldn't do that - and of course you need to stay active and aggressive against such a fighter.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's a 50/50 proposition at best that standup wing chun strategies and tactics will stop the fast-closing takedown...or the clinch that may lead to the takedown.

Learning how to mix Wing Chun with grappling in these situations - instead of just trying to rely entirely on wing chun - is the way to go, imo.

In a real fight - it's very hard to stop a clinch from developing against a good, strong, skilled fighter determined to make it happen...

BECAUSE YOU'RE BOTH probably going forward toward each other...and so, unless you think you can knock just about anybody out with one or two punches or kicks...

you're going to find yourself in a clinch situation very often.

[old jong]

Nobody said anything about just raising the hands and cresting openings for your opponent if he trys to close quickly for a grab and takedown...of course you wouldn't do that - and of course yyou need to saty active and aggressive against such a fighter.

I did not accuse you of saying that Victor!...It's just that we can see this strategy used a lot in MMA matches and it works a lot for some reason.I have seen it in BJJ tapes and everywhere.They assume that this will bait everybody into rising the hands to clear the way for a clinch or takedown.I differ in opinion because the instant somebody throw a hand,could it be a feint or real attack,I will instantly use it to attack myself.This is part of Wing Chun's principles IMO.Of course this is not the same when somebody has been trained to just raise the hands in case of attacks and a clear way to a clinch or shoot will be provided.
As I said earlier,I agree about the sprawll and other similar tactics if needed.Nobody is perfect all the times!

[anerlich]

I am fairly sure that it will show the error of a wc person beginning an encounter with a skilled fighter with a kick.

I can't argue with this generally ... but Royce won at least one of his bouts in UFC1 by faking a front kick just prior to shooting a double leg - on Art Jimmerson and maybe someone else as well.

I've got a picture (the Gracie Way) of Rickson doing something similar (to Levicki of all people) in one of his Vale Tudo fights.

[old jong]

I can't argue with this generally ... but Royce won at least one of his bouts in UFC1 by faking a front kick just prior to shooting a double leg

The main thing in his favor is that he doesn't care if he gets caught and brought to the ground!... He wants it!

[Ultimatewingchun]

"It's just that we can see this strategy used a lot in MMA matches and it works a lot for some reason.I have seen it in BJJ tapes and everywhere.They assume that this will bait everybody into rising the hands to clear the way for a clinch or takedown.I differ in opinion because the instant somebody throw a hand,could it be a feint or real attack,I will instantly use it to attack myself.This is part of Wing Chun's principles IMO.Of course this is not the same when somebody has been trained to just raise the hands in case of attacks and a clear way to a clinch or shoot will be provided.
As I said earlier,I agree about the sprawll and other similar tactics if needed." (Michel)

QUITE RIGHT....

Wing Chun is very well suited to NOT just create an opening for the opponent if he throws a strike to set up a grab and takedown...by raising our hands. If one is disciplined enough in wing chun he will not react in such a manner - and will probably attack - as you said.

So the takedown won't be a simple one....but he can force a standing clinch if he's any good - and do it a significant percentage of the time...so much so that wrestling maneuvers and takedown counters should be a natural part of the arsenal.

That's my whole point.

[old jong]

So the takedown won't be a simple one....but he can force a standing clinch if he's any good - and do it a significant percentage of the time...so much so that wrestling maneuvers and takedown counters should be a natural part of the arsenal.

As I always say: The more Wing Chun you have =The less you might have to deal with some bad situations! But,who is perfect 100% of the times?...So,basic and simple defenses against these attacks can be learned and integrated easily just in case.

[Vajramusti]

Anerlich- Any comment/observation on Rickson's reversal in midair in dealing with the slam-after watching his stuff again? Curious.

Joy

[anerlich]

Anerlich- Any comment/observation on Rickson's reversal in midair in dealing with the slam-after watching his stuff again? Curious.

ulp ... I, er, haven't got to this yet