The Clinch

[SimonM]

I understand that a person should be trained to know what to happen when they get in the clinch. What I don't understand is why martial arts that purport to be about self defense deliberately seek the clinch. The clinch seems too committed to me; I like having the flexibility to punch or to throw depending what opportunities present themselves but in some arts (such as BJJ) they essentially run into each other's embrace in order to clinch as soon as possible it seems. What gives?

[Meat Shake]

How can you throw without clinching?
maybe sweeps or a couple of overheads... or "non body contact throws"... but hardcore throws pretty much all come from the clinch. (At least out of what I know)
Its also a lot easier to go towards someone than to keep someone from comming towards you. Which would you rather be?

[lkfmdc]

www.MarkNegron.com

buy the san da clinching DVD... all your questions will be answered

[SevenStar]

The clinch seems too committed to me; I like having the flexibility to punch or to throw depending what opportunities present themselves

from the clinch, you can knee, elbow, throw, shoulder, punch, sweep, takedown, etc. I can feel your body movement, control your balance...

there are various reasons for clinching. If you are a puncher or kicker and I am not, then from a clinch, I am in better position to do my thing, while at the same time limiting you.


but in some arts (such as BJJ) they essentially run into each other's embrace in order to clinch as soon as possible it seems. What gives?

the clinch is the entry point to grappling - that's where the bjj player wants you. He wants to get inside your strikes so he can take you down.

[SAAMAG]

the clinch is the entry point to grappling - that's where the bjj player wants you. He wants to get inside your strikes so he can take you down.

Position first,action second....that's the way a BJJ thinks.

I train in wing chun and muay thai, but have crossed train in BJJ and have past experience with Shuia Jiao and chin na from shaolin styles...

There are times when I am overwhelmed with punches or strikes or whatever, and I also go to a throw, clinch, or takedown when that happens. I change the venue so to speak. And contrary to popular belief, grappling/clinching or what have you is a pretty safe spot as long as you're comfy there....and the guys you're talking about are.

[Ultimatewingchun]

I mix Traditional Wing Chun (William Cheung's version) with Catch wrestling - as a MMA...and the clinch is INDEED where striking and grappling meet - as 7Star alluded to.

You have to be able to fight in this range because it is where many takedowns and throws begin - and where much can be gained by elbow and knee strikes.

The first post on this thread seemed to suggest that it's possible to simply arbitrarily avoid this range - and stay at longer range with striking and kicking technique...

that scenario is not so realistic.

Sometimes the clinch is completely unavoidable (ie.- he skillfully rushed you)...and sometimes you may want to use it because it will give you an advantage.

[Merryprankster]

You can also strike quite effectively from the clinch, while controlling your opponent's center.

Good skill - vital actually. Without it, you can't defend the takedowns to stay upright either...

[Vash]

Clinch roxors boxors.

I see the majority of karate techniques beginning at (the furthest - wtf is up with the text editor? I can't say far-ther!) arm's length. Meaning, I've been jumped, and could not avoid grappling. Therefore, I base my application on fighting from, to, and out of, the clinch. And as Merryprankster said, striking power is really suprising at this range.

I've only just recently started bag striking from clinch range, using karate stepping methods, and dayum, that's hard, working the technique against that much resistance from that close. I've really learned quite a bit about the role of the abdominals in the production of power, even for mostly vertical strikes.

If you can't fight out of the clinch, you're probably not going to be able to handle yourself against anyone with any type of experience, "official" or otherwise.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Fighting is about control. You control him, you beat him.

Throws, knees, elbows, dirty boxing, pummeling, snapdowns, pressure, driving someone into a wall.. are all mandatory skills for fighting

[SimonM]

I

The first post on this htread seemed to suggest that it's possible to simply arbitrarily avoid this range - and stay at longer range with striking and kicking technique...

.

Actually I very specifically did not say that. In fact I specifically said that I can understand why one would want to train for the eventuality of a clinch should one happen (I do that myself) what I questioned was the effectiveness of martial arts that depend overly much on the clinch because it can potentially be avoided and commits everything into one specific sphere of attack/defense strategy.

[yenhoi]

Avoiding clinch is a much harder skill to develop then clinching.

If you are trying to hit someone, and he is trying to hit you, you will be fighting at clinch range.

If you are trying to hit, and he is trying to clinch or ground fight, then you will fight at clinch range.

Unless you run away, out the door, over a fence, and into a car and drive away, you will fight in clinch range.

Or goto some sporting event that forbids or highly regulates what can happen in clinch range.

You probably cannont name any methods or styles or familys that dont fight or train fighting at clinch range, no matter what they call it.

[SimonM]

You probably cannont name any methods or styles or familys that dont fight or train fighting at clinch range, no matter what they call it.

OK, for a third time I am not saying that you should not train in a clinch, I am saying that if a clinch can be avoided (and it can, trust me - my sifu trains both clinch, clinch breaking and clinch avoidance techniques relatively regularly) it should be and that I question the logic of martial arts that DELIBERATELY SEEK THE CLINCH IMMEDIATELY at the start of combat.

[Meat Shake]

Cause its a little easier and more realistic?

[yenhoi]

Which arts deliberatly seek the clinch and which dont?

All seek to dominate true fighting range (whatever you want to call it) - and that range is clinch range. Clinch is where fighting happens.

Everything else is running away, ballistic, or sport.

[yenhoi]

How on earth do you expect to fight someone, and hit them hard enough to stop fighitng without entering clinch range?