BJJ Instructor, legit or not?

[Radhnoti]

I'm looking for a bit of help. A nearby town has a dojo that's recently started advertising BJJ classes. I was thinking of checking it out, but I called first to ask some questions. It went something like this:

Me: So, which BJJ family are you guys affiliated with?

Guy: It's not me, it's Scott's class, he's affiliated with Carlson Gracie's school.

Me: Really? What's his rank?

Guy: Blue belt, but that's like a black belt in most schools. He's always been into grappling arts, he studied Judo extensively in college and various other grappling schools prior to starting with Gracie.

Me (suspecting video training exclusively...not unheard of around here) : Oh? Where did he have to travel to train, or is he not from this area?

Guy: Well...my understanding is that Mr. Gracie gives seminars nationwide and when you attend enough and can show you know your stuff, he'll allow you to test.

Me: Hmmm. So, can he advance you in Brazilian Jujitsu?

Guy: My understanding is that you can't test people for belt advancement until you reach Purple belt...which Scott ALMOST is. He'd probably ask one of the purple belts we know in Lexington or Louisville (KY) to come down if the issue came up quickly.

Me: Which I suppose it won't happen quickly...as it takes years to advance, right?

Guy (worried that potential student will run with that fact clarified, I think) : Uh, yeah.

Me: OK, when are classes and how much?

Guy: Thursday at 7:15 and they run for an hour.

Me: And, how much?

Guy: It depends on your individual schedule for training. Come in for a free class and we'll talk payment after that.

Me: I'm just interested in watching the first class, care if I come in this Thursday and observe?

Guy: Sure, I'll put you down for a conference right after that!

Me: I'm not really wanting to roll this time, I'd like to just watch and see how things run.

Guy: That's fine, but the conference needs to be after you watch.



SO....questions I have include:

Are blue belts authorized to teach BJJ?
Is there any way to check a BJJ teacher's credentials under Carlson Gracie?
What are the chances of a guy who's studied extensively in...say Judo, going to a couple of seminars to get the first rank in BJJ and then teaching Judo...saying it's BJJ?
What is a fair price for lessons? Especially if it'll just be one hour a week? (They have a Sat. class that conflicts with my work schedule.)


I'm fairly certain I'm going to get a high pressure sales pitch following my observation Thursday...which I can sympathize with, it's what we call the "winter lull" around here when everyone seems to be scrambling for students. I intend to tell the guy that I need to talk things over with my wife, since I had NO idea what the price would be (sort of a dig at his evasiveness on the phone).

This guy is NOT the only grappling game in my area. There's another guy (small circle jujitsu...so I'm certain he came up via seminars too) who's students win tournaments worldwide teaching the next town over. But, if this guy might be teaching such a well-organized system so close to me...well...I'm interested.

Any advice?

[JKDChick]

Yes, blue belts can teach. In SOME lineages, they aren't aloud to PROMOTE people at all, or only to a certain stripe level with the white belt. Other BJJ lineages let people promote to one level below themselves, Purple to Blue, Brown to Purple and so on.

Look up the instructor on Carlsons website and bjj.org? I think. Those resources are not complete, but better than nothing.

Grappling is the new Kung Fu, yeah, there are a lot of guys with a little background in SOME ground art calling themselves BJJ instructors. The more detailed the lineage (with verifiable credentials, not just snapshots and seminar memberships on the wall) the better. But it can still be a crap shoot.

I remember ... something about small circle, but I can't remember good or bad. Let me look it up.

[Radhnoti]

The small circle stuff is promoted/put together by Prof. Wally Jay. I know quite a bit about that school, as I used to be a student. They also teach a style of shorinryu karate, and judo...but it's actually a fusion of all three the instructor has put together. I left because we had no adults in the class besides the instructor, and the focus was almost entirely on winning competitions (which really charged the kids up I'll admit). I won against every student, they just didn't have my size (oldest was a sop****re in high school)...and never won against the instructor, he was the biggest guy on the U.S. Sport Jujitsu team and he'd have to give me obvious breaks to ever tap him out. That was around 7 years ago, so I'm guessing he's had a near total turnover by now. So, there might be some folks my age/size now.

The head instructor at the place I checked into DID mention stripes now that you mention it...so I suppose that's why they'd have to call down a senior, for stripes.

Thanks for a quick response JKDChick.

[JKDChick]

Oh, you're welcome, always hoping for new converts to the Church.

As a general rule, the grading in BJJ goes

White Belt
3-5 stripes within the white belt category

Blue Belt
3 -5 stripes

Purple
3-5 Stripes

Brown
3-5 Stripes

Black
Stripes ad infinitum

Some schools won't give out more than 3 stripes per belt level, some like to give more to signal that you're GOOD just not ready to promote. And don't be surprised if you stay at a low level for a long time 3-7 years at white belt is NOT uncommon.

[SevenStar]

SO....questions I have include:

Are blue belts authorized to teach BJJ?
Is there any way to check a BJJ teacher's credentials under Carlson Gracie?
What are the chances of a guy who's studied extensively in...say Judo, going to a couple of seminars to get the first rank in BJJ and then teaching Judo...saying it's BJJ?


according to most bjj standards, yes, a blue belt can teach. He can run his own school, but it's called a training association.

you can check rank here:

http://www.bjj.org/a/ranks.html

but ranks can change frequently, and it would be EXTREMELY hard to keep up with all of their blue belts across the world, so don't be discouraged if the guy isn't listed. He was correct about the test, but different people do it different ways. Adriano lucio, for example, will put you through a formalized test for your blue belt. Royce gracie on the other hand, will just give it to you if he's seen you at more than two seminars and it looks like you have a firm grasp of the basics.



What is a fair price for lessons? Especially if it'll just be one hour a week? (They have a Sat. class that conflicts with my work schedule.)

according to the gracie's a TA should charge between 65.00 and 75.00 per month. Schools with a brown or black belt can charge 100 a month or more.


I'm fairly certain I'm going to get a high pressure sales pitch following my observation Thursday...which I can sympathize with, it's what we call the "winter lull" around here when everyone seems to be scrambling for students. I intend to tell the guy that I need to talk things over with my wife, since I had NO idea what the price would be (sort of a dig at his evasiveness on the phone).

that's fair. Don't let them rush you into anything.



This guy is NOT the only grappling game in my area. There's another guy (small circle jujitsu...so I'm certain he came up via seminars too) who's students win tournaments worldwide teaching the next town over. But, if this guy might be teaching such a well-organized system so close to me...well...I'm interested.

small circle is through wally jay and is not the same thing...

[JKDChick]

Oh, Royce isn't THAT much of a pimp. He'll give out blues a little more frequently, yeah, but I haven't yet seen him give out one that was totally UN-deserved, in my area anyway.

To guys anyway; sometimes it seems like being a female player either means you NEVER get promoted or "Oh look! She did an arm bar! Blue belt for you, sweetie!".

[SevenStar]

I've seen it. IMO, the guys deserved it, but royce didn't put them through any type of test or anything. He remembered them from previous seminars and watched them. the second day of his seminar is the day he hands out belts, and if he thought you looked deserving from what he'd seen, he gave you one.

[MoreMisfortune]

blue belts teaching?
only in america

im quite sure blue belts are not allowed to teach in here
as in, have their own place wiht their own class and their own students, that is
they are allowed to help with teaching on their teachers class though

a school run by a blue belt?
never seen it
sounds insane to me

[Radhnoti]

Thanks to all who answered. I'm checking it out tomorrow, I'll let you know my impressions.

[red5angel]

more misfortune, I think this is a modern thing, not just a national thing. Since it's become so easy to travel and transmit data to out of the way locations, alot of people who want to see their organization grow, for better or worse, will allow some people to teach that they wouldn't normally. For example, my instructor for capoeira was rushed through his training and he's required to go to a couple of batizados a year to get checked out, and is barely at the rank to teach. Because of that, a student from another school who is qualified to teach came up for university here, and now he is technically teaching the class.
It's not necesarily a bad thing in my opinion, since I would never see capoeira in minnesota otherwise. OF course you have to make sure your instructor is legite and all that but beyond that.....

[JKDChick]

You guys do realise that while a blue belt is a very low rank in most arts, a BJJ blue is going to have 3-5 years of experience, training and compeitions, behind them? A BJJ black belt should take 10-15 years and there's no guarantee you're going to get one.

There is a serious problem beginning with self-promoted BJJ people claiming higher rank than they deserve (one guy got on a plane in Brazil a Brown and landed in CA as a black belt -- apparently did alot of training in mid-flight, I'd guess), but the truth is still that a BJJ blue in a respectable lineage will have the MORE training time than your average BLACK BELT in most other arts.

That's why BJJ McDojo's are so offensive, and must be mercilously stamped out. They water down what the rankings mean in BJJ.

[SevenStar]

yeas and no. It's aptitude dependent. I've known guys who have gotten their blue in two years of training. Without question though, a blue belt will definitely have a good handle on the basics, and will awesome with his positioning and escapes. I agree with everything else you said, however.

[red5angel]

You guys do realise that while a blue belt is a very low rank in most arts, a BJJ blue is going to have 3-5 years of experience, training and compeitions, behind them? A BJJ black belt should take 10-15 years and there's no guarantee you're going to get one.

There is a serious problem beginning with self-promoted BJJ people claiming higher rank than they deserve (one guy got on a plane in Brazil a Brown and landed in CA as a black belt -- apparently did alot of training in mid-flight, I'd guess), but the truth is still that a BJJ blue in a respectable lineage will have the MORE training time than your average BLACK BELT in most other arts.

That's why BJJ McDojo's are so offensive, and must be mercilously stamped out. They water down what the rankings mean in BJJ.

Hey imagine that, brazillian jujitsu having the same types of failings as all the other martial arts out there. Who'd a thunk?

[JKDChick]

yeas and no. It's aptitude dependent. I've known guys who have gotten their blue in two years of training. Without question though, a blue belt will definitely have a good handle on the basics, and will awesome with his positioning and escapes. I agree with everything else you said, however.

The saving grace of being in such a "thug" style is the instant anyone lets the word out they got their blue in 2 years or less, it's like they have a target painted on their gi.

EVERYONE'S suddenly gunning for them.

[JKDChick]

Hey imagine that, brazillian jujitsu having the same types of failings as all the other martial arts out there. Who'd a thunk?

What a useful, mature response. Thank you so much for your insight. Brilliant and eloquent, as usual.

Point of fact, while the whole creeping McDojo phenomemon has begun to inflitrate BJJ and grappling in the last ten years or so, that's still about a century less bull**** time than ... oh, almost EVERY OTHER ART.