Eagle Claw - claw technique

[David Jamieson]

dudes, I believe I did say in my earlier post:

Claws are claws, they spread, the grab, they sink in, they pull back or remain latched on. that is the essence of any claw type usage in kungfu. The same as it is in the animal world. Tearing, ripping, piercing, shredding.

the lily lau and Leung Shum techs are correct ying jao pai type stuff. as is the other. using less of the hand denotes that you are either attacking a smaller target such as the throat or maybe the fat on someones back around their kidney area or it can also be just a trait of the style it is being used in.

I didn't say they are impossible, in fact, I agree that once the bridge is crossed and you are actually standing on teh other side, you can get them in, however, it takes a lot of conditioning and hand strength to actually make them effective.

Now don't make me requote my own stuff again or I'll Craw you with the Craw THE CRAW!!!!!

[Starchaser107]

yowwch

stop that!

my bad

[Ben Gash]

KL, I've done it full speed BAREHAND with opponents wanting to hurt me. You finish looking like Bruce Lee at the end of ETD, but you learn a lot about claws.

[ngokfei]

all I can say is what's your experience in sparring/fighting an eagle claw stylist.

Hey I'll toot my horn here,

3 harmonies;

I know who your talking about and his skill is really low level. Just a forms guy. My teachers school is like many of the older schools. Those who want to fight do so. Those who want pretty forms, your welcome to them (we've got over 75).

I'd say in the over 2000+ students my teacher has instructed, less than 100 were efficient fighters. and of the cream I'd have to say 20 (and I'm lucky to consider myself one of them ) Now don't ask me to do a split


fighting is fighting, anything goes.
To Claw or not to Claw

Just kick him in the nuts

[David Jamieson]

Just kick him in the nuts

just grazing the ball sack will more often than not lead to a break in the sparring time for recuperation. No need to drive in hard...unless you mean it. hahaha

[WanderingMonk]

I'd say in the over 2000+ students my teacher has instructed, less than 100 were efficient fighters. and of the cream I'd have to say 20

5 % students became efficient fighter
1 % student became great
that is not an encouraging statistic.

how many out of 2,000+ were serious students to begin with?

[ngokfei]

just like a pyramid, alot of base with a focused point.

Kind of like the chart of the well balanced diet

1st Sifu shums school has been open since 1974 and was for many years the largest KF school in NYC.

now out of the 2,000 students lets say only about 50 percent stayed past 6 months. Kind of like taebo

Business before pleasure..

Today we are lucky that their exists gyms totally geared towards combat. The 80's and early 90's was not condusive for this environment.
those serious students who liked fighting had to either stay after class (9pm on a week night) or just do it whenever we could. it was worth it because our teacher would brushoff the repetitive form teaching to come over and give us his time.

Welcome to the UFC age. - just got in on the tail end of San Shou

In todays world of fly by night students, what constitutes serious.

My general students get a strong balanced curiculum. Kind of like a highschool education. Afte that I customize their program, for those who want it.

Those wanting more will have to pay the $$. I have had my fill of deadbeat students. Oh sifu I can't pay this month but teach me some grappling, all the time they are strutting around in a new pair of sneakers on their feet

I'm not a fight manager so I don't see the excitement to train fighters. They only leave you with the bag (empty that is).

My focus is whether to go to hawalli or australia for vacation

[Dao]

From my experience with the style and from what I see with the pictures, the first hand form is used and I wouldn't use the second one. The first one as said before can be used for grappling situations when needed and the applications of Chin Na techniques is very helpful. Also since the claw has the fingers tightly bound together, it allows for less injury if the hand was kicked at by the opponent. The second claw might have some Chin Na applications, but I see too many instances where if you miss with that claw that you will then be open for injury to that hand from a punch or a kick. Since the fingers are outstretched, it would make it a lot easier for the fingers to be broken and to make that hand almost useless in the rest of the fight.
I'm not sure how other Eagle Claw styles use the claw, but for us it can be quite useful if you know how to use it.

[Ben Gash]

Dao, with any claw technique you should make contact with a palm and then pull into the claw. If you try lashing out with a formed claw shape you just hurt your fingers, and your own finger tips impede the grab (see my earlier post).
What kind of range are you trying to do claws from if people are kicking you in the hands You can't really dis a handform that is present in several styles across Asia and has been for a couple of hundred years. As with all techniques it works perfectly well if you know how and when to use it.

[shuaichiao]

5 % students became efficient fighter
1 % student became great
that is not an encouraging statistic.

I think thats probably common in American kung fu schools. So many people think kung fu is just for show so it's mostly people who like forms or people that want realy fancy fantasy techniques that sign up. Even inside kung fu circles alot of people think northern styles are for show and southern stryles are for fighting. Most people who sign up for eagle claw either just want the fancy forms with the fan zi mixed in or the want to become cum na experts without mastering basic fighting first. Useing cum na with or without the eagle claw is tough for someone with little fighting experience. It takes a high level of timing as well as alot of experience to recognize the right and wrong opportunities to apply cum na. Most people who try it find that it's not as simple as just learning the techniques and being able to apply them and only a small percent of them are willing to go through the training and develop the skills they need to make the cum na work. If a school has few or no other good fighters to train with or against that will limit the development of the fighters it does get.

[Three Harmonies]

Ngok Fei has been sending me very pleasent PM's lately, and he seems to be a bit confused. I never said I was any kind of authority on Eagle Claw (nor anything to be honest). I offered my experiences with Eagle Claw, and while I admit they are limited, I also again admit that one would have to be pretty amazing to really pull off claw techniques as I understand them! I have seen Ealge Claw from both major families in this country, and I have yet to see anyone that can really use it.
Now Ngok Fei is ranting and raving that he is the next best fighter on earth, which is fine. I hope with spending all the time and money he has that he can use the technique. Unfortunatley all that time and money has yet to teach him any kind of respect and/or maturity!
I apologize to anyone if they misinterpreted my experiences (which I was just sharing for this thread), as an attempt to state an absolute authority on Eagle Claw.

Cheers
Jake

[ngokfei]

well 3 harmonies if you want to bring PM's to light then by all means.

My concern was with you referencing your limited experiences as something meaningful.

All I said was that you should seek out individuals who are atleast considered by their teachers as proficient in the usage of the "eagle Claw" methods.

You gave reference to a Mr. Wilson who is my "junior" and is not a "certified instructor". My teacher has no control of individuals who want to teach their limited knowledge.

My skills are just that Mine. I'm by far no means the best exponent of the style but do hold a position of proficiency. "Man would like to be on the Ultimate Fighter show

Just keep your ideas of fortune cookie respect stuff to yourself. You opened up the box by making such generalized statements about something you have very little knowledge or experience in.

As that is that lets keep on with the usage of the Claw in Combat.

[Starchaser107]

Must be the predatory nature of the animal...

everytime an eagle claw thread pops up, it's bound to get volatile

[Shaolinlueb]

well SC. maybe we should start saying how we study under grand master lueng lee fu and how ours "isnt real eagle claw" yet my sifu is fully capable in using chin na in events and so arent my sihings. and im sure steven chin is too. oh lets jsut forget about how he turns out excellent fighters and forms people.

eagle claw chin na is very effective and takes lots of timing. its sad people try using it without having experience fighting and look like idiots and hurt the image. and when ngok fie posted the pyramid scheme, sounds about right.

[Starchaser107]

Word to my big fat talons!