Eagle Claw - claw technique

[Dao]

Dao, with any claw technique you should make contact with a palm and then pull into the claw. If you try lashing out with a formed claw shape you just hurt your fingers, and your own finger tips impede the grab (see my earlier post).
What kind of range are you trying to do claws from if people are kicking you in the hands You can't really dis a handform that is present in several styles across Asia and has been for a couple of hundred years. As with all techniques it works perfectly well if you know how and when to use it.

I'm saying that the hand form that has the extended fingers risks more injury than the one that doesn't. You are right about claw moves lashing out, but if you get in a real grappling battle it would be more likely that the extended finger claw would be easier to grab the fingers and put the practitioner in a not quite so fun position. Truth is most likely the claw won't be kicked as you seemed confused by that, but it is easier to hurt an extended finger than a clentched in one. So I guess I'm saying the first one would be safer and more practical to use than the latter claw.

[Three Harmonies]

NF
Wow. Your testosterone is through the roof! I was offering my experiences yes. Limited...okay, if you say so. I am not as qualified as you by all means. I have touched hands with several of your "seniors" outside of Mr. Wilson, as well as some of Lily Laus folks. I stated my experiences, and never claimed them too be anything more.
As for Mr. Wilson not being "certified".... I am not sure if he has a piece of paper stating that he is allowed to teach (and that means what......). But I have spoken with Leung Shum Laoshi (your teacher) and he has stated Mr. Wilson has his full permisson and greatest encouragements to teach. Your tone is not only disrespectful towards me (which is fine), but also towards your teacher (which I do not find okay)!
Are you that insecure that you need to jump the gun to prove you are bigger/longer??? I was not trying to give a 110% for sure, set in concrete answer to anything. I was mearly stating my limited experiences, and you feel the need to jump down my throat in a rather rude manner.
Fortune cookie respect eh? Just respect in general. Not a huge surprise you ended up in Georgia!
I tell you what....please prove me wrong. I look forward to seeing some video footage of you utilizing claw techniques in a most realistic manner tonight when I check back in. Then I would be more than happy to qualify my statements, and then I could with confidence (because you are a SENIOR student, with a certificate) say that I have seen actual clawing techniques that work on the street!
Not sure I understand the Ultimate Fighter Show comment?? Did you try out?

Jake

[sean_stonehart]

Hey..... what's Georgia got to do with anything??

The few of us true born Georgians normally have manners that remain trried & true!

[Three Harmonies]

My apologies. Very true I have met more nice folks than *******s from Georgia!

When we meet someday, first round is on me!
Cheers
Jake

[sean_stonehart]

My apologies. Very true I have met more nice folks than *******s from Georgia!

When we meet someday, first round is on me!
Cheers
Jake

Jake you're on!

[ngokfei]

3 harmoniis

1. You do what you do
2. I respect those who respect others
3. by the way I'm not certified , don't need the headache
4. and not to worry, so as nothing gets mistaken, I've sent my Sifu copies of OUR Posts and PM and will let him decide what you meant.
5. Disrepsecting my Sifu in what terms, call him up and ask him.
6. Not a video kind of guy, just come down and I'll show you in person

oh by the way I'm from NYC - so that makes me a Yankee!!

lets just leave it at that If you want to discuss further hears my phone number: 770-385-8127

my appologies to all members, didn't mean to sidtrack the thread.

[Three Harmonies]

Really dude, relax. You have really taken this a bit too far. Like I mentioned ten times over, I was just relating my experiences, LIMITED as they were, I related my findings. Does this mean ALL practictioners can't do it?? NO! Did I say for sure, 100% positive, garbage?? NO! I am happy to hear you say that you know how to use it! Seriously. Thats what I mean, relax a bit. If I disrespected you, my apologies. But I would watch where I point that finger with this kind of attitude.
In your opinion how many years of dedicated training does it take to obtain a level where one can utilize the claw effectively? Is it pure sparring that gets one to this level, or a combination of the claw training and qigong, etc.?
Sorry to hear you are "not a video kind of guy" . Do you know of any video we can all find on the web that demonstrates these techniques used realistically? I remember seeing a video of Ying Jow Pai sparring (one of your teachers videos I believe), and there were some good fights, but I would hesitate to say they were using Eagle Claw techniques nor theory. But I have only a basic understanding.
Peace pipe, educate me without me having to spend money to fly to you, to have you beat me down etc. Can you explain in better detail verbally since you are not willing to share vids?
Thank you, Eric.
Jake

[Starchaser107]

Like I said earlier , there's quite a few techs in eagle claw that resemble what you might see in juijitsu or any such grappling arts. These arts don't necessarily train a claw , but they do train grappling consistently.
But don't take my word for it, ask one of the more "recognized" lineages. such as shum or law, I can only speak for what I know.

[One Finger Zen]

My teacher has always emphasised that hand forms are like screw driver heads- they can be interchanged with any other type of hand form [claw in this case].

Yang Jwing Ming uses the second claw as crane. Thats his decision i guess.

For all anyone knows, the claw could be used for ANY type of style, because as we all know the term style is an umbrella title to define different 'styles' of kungfu from others even though basically most kungfu has the same base, in my opinion, just some subtle differences.

Just my two pence

OFZ

[Starchaser107]

u know, I've always been familiar with crane beak and wing hand but , never a crane claw technique until recently with this thread.
learn something new everyday.

[WinterPalm]

I think many kung fu systems have a similar basis, or focus on what is basic, but I've studied wing chun and Black Tiger and the Black Tiger is way different in terms of basics. Those two systems are very different in my opinion.
But I do think that using a claw technique is not impossible, heck, anytime you are grabbing someone you are using a claw, in a way, I mean to use a tiger claw for what it is designed for, aside from grabbing a limb or other body part, is to tear flesh and that is somehting you can't really do in sparring.

[David Jamieson]

For the most part, 99.999% of humans cannot tear flesh with their hands.

to prove this to yourself, just see how much effort it takes to rip a chunk off a roast with your hand.

then think about how that applies in a dynamic situation like a fight.

[shuaichiao]

Yang Jwing Ming uses the second claw as crane. Thats his decision i guess.

Not really. It is in the forms he learned from his crane teacher and is a traditional part of that style.

u know, I've always been familiar with crane beak and wing hand but , never a crane claw technique until recently with this thread.
learn something new everyday.

The crane claw hand form is used very little in most surviving crane sets and is usualy only in the advanced sets. The ha say fu hung gar crane set uses that hand form repeatedly through out the form.

[Starchaser107]

thanks for the info

[Three Harmonies]

OKay I think we all need to differentiate between theory, and actual application. While I would not argue that any grab could be construed as a "clawing technique," one would have to ask why bother with the claw at all, just go into a grab. There must be some reason EC trains a specific clawing technique, yes? In Mantis we have "guo" which literally means hook (the infamous mantis claw or hooking hand everyone sees). Now I do not fight like that, but it represents a certain theory. Letting the hand stay relaxed enough to "listen" (Ting Jing) to the movements of ones opponents. Yet it is realxed enough to explode into action if needed. Does this make sense?
I agree also that "tearing of flesh" is just flat out unrealistic. You can grab in places such as inner thigh, and inner arm, but I doubt anyone hear can tear it off!? But then again Eric has not chimed in lately! A good claw (if applied properly) could possibly cause the trachea to collapse, but you could not rip it out (ala Swayze in Road House ).
I was hoping since Eric has so much experience he would offer a bit more, but I guess all he had to offer was knocking others down. I wish some of the folks on this forum would grow up a bit, in that if they are going to get on and put people down they can offer some sort of education to the rest of us other than saying we are wrong! It is a shame, but what can one do??

Jake