Differences in the forms between lineages

[old jong]

My point was that all lineage have many ways to move around.The shifting is a very good development tool and is practical in many situations but there is more to it.We use steps also! (many kinds) And training makes them very fast.
I just want to clear that floating and strange idea that only TWC have footwork.Is that a marketing thing?...
Anyway,I don't believe it is a good thing to promote something by creating wrong ideas about others.
Let's keep this place a discussion forum for people...Not organisations propaganda.

[Gangsterfist]

I have no idea how Yip Man taught my sigung how to use foot work, or how my sigung taught my sifu. All I know is how I am taught now. The dragging the foot thing, is IMHO a misconception. You should not drag your feet, you should skate across the ground in a way. In effect you are stepping, its just reduced to miminal movement needed to get to where you are. Remember its not who is faster, its who gets there first. A lot of times you will actually move less, and be faster than your opponet because of optimal movements. I hope that makes sense.

I was reading complete wing chun the other night and was reading over I think the Pan Nam lineage of WC. I could be mixing this up and I will have to go home and pick up my book again to reassure thats right when I get off work. But they have a principle that says every step is a kick. Which is how I train in Yang Taiji, but my sifu never really said that when we trained wing chun. Anyways, I thought that was interesting.

[KPM]

I was reading complete wing chun the other night and was reading over I think the Pan Nam lineage of WC. I could be mixing this up and I will have to go home and pick up my book again to reassure thats right when I get off work. But they have a principle that says every step is a kick. Which is how I train in Yang Taiji, but my sifu never really said that when we trained wing chun. Anyways, I thought that was interesting.

---I learned that as a standard saying in WCK: "every step a kick, every kick a step!"

Keith

[Gangsterfist]

Kieth,

I guess I have always heard my instructors say it in class, just they mostly said it when we would practice taiji and not wing chun. Maybe thats just coincidence I don't know.

However, lots of martial arts have that concept.

[Phil Redmond]

My point was that all lineage have many ways to move around.The shifting is a very good development tool and is practical in many situations but there is more to it.We use steps also! (many kinds) And training makes them very fast.
I just want to clear that floating and strange idea that only TWC have footwork.Is that a marketing thing?...
Anyway,I don't believe it is a good thing to promote something by creating wrong ideas about others.
Let's keep this place a discussion forum for people...Not organisations propaganda.

Hey Michel, If you'll notice in my post I said all WC emphasizes mobility. As for TWC and marketing and propganda what do you base your statement on? Were you privy to everything Yip Man taught? Or are you just follwing the trend of some WC people who will disagree with anything other than what they are familiar with? I personally know that there is footwork in TWC that isn't in other YM lineages. I base this on the fact that I'm familiar with many different WC lineages. Many people are familiar with 1 or 2 lineages at the most. My point is that until you have concrete evidence your statement about marketing is your opinion. It could be marketing for all we know but neither you nor I were not there during the private William Cheung Yip Man sessions. Get the point? Staterments like your are divisive and it's getting really old.
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

My point was that all lineage have many ways to move around.The shifting is a very good development tool and is practical in many situations but there is more to it.We use steps also! (many kinds) And training makes them very fast.
I just want to clear that floating and strange idea that only TWC have footwork.Is that a marketing thing?...
Anyway,I don't believe it is a good thing to promote something by creating wrong ideas about others.
Let's keep this place a discussion forum for people...Not organisations propaganda.

Hey Michel, If you'll notice in my post I said all WC emphasizes mobility. As for TWC and marketing and propganda what do you base your statement on? Were you privy to everything Yip Man taught? Or are you just follwing the trend of some WC people who will disagree with anything other than what they are familiar with? I personally know that there is footwork in TWC that isn't in other YM lineages. I base this on the fact that I'm familiar with many different WC lineages. Many people are familiar with 1 or 2 lineages at the most. My point is that until you have concrete evidence your statement about marketing is your opinion. It could be marketing for all we know but neither you nor I were not there during the private William Cheung Yip Man sessions. Get the point? Staterments like your are divisive and it's getting really old my friend.
Phil

[old jong]

Too bad you take it this way Phil!
I was not privy with Yip Man but who was?...Oh! I know somebody and I talked with him not so long ago...Ho Kam Ming!
Just want to be clear about this: I'm not dissing your lineage.You know what I meant really.I'm confident about this.
BTW,propaganda that diminishes others divises,usually and that...Is getting old.
Nothing personal Phil.

[old jong]

I am aware that TWC has a few differences in footwork.I don't deny this.The only thing bugging me is how it is promoted sometimes on this forum by diminishing the other's approaches to footwork.
All lineage have their own ways to deal with footwork and there are just so many ways to put a foot in front of the other.
I could say also that all who promote some secret or exclusive things,saying that others know zero on the matter are doing the same.
The close door secrets and all that goes with these things are the main things getting realllly old.

[Phil Redmond]

I am aware that TWC has a few differences in footwork.I don't deny this.The only thing bugging me is how it is promoted sometimes on this forum by diminishing the other's approaches to footwork.
All lineage have their own ways to deal with footwork and there are just so many ways to put a foot in front of the other.
I could say also that all who promote some secret or exclusive things,saying that others know zero on the matter are doing the same.
The close door secrets and all that goes with these things are the main things getting realllly old.

Michel, You're right but I'm not one of those guys. I fought successfully using a non-TWC version and I know many good WC fighters who don't even do TWC. Many of my sihings from Duncan Leung's school are good examples. I'm just so used to having to defend what I do that sometimes I react defensively. But since I've been in many WC camps I do have an idea about what works (for me), and what doesn't. This summer I plan on visiting Montreal. I heard that the city is beautiful and I'd like to see French Canada first hand. Hopefully we'll be able to meet, have a meal and talk WC. Paz
Phil

Phil

[Phil Redmond]

Too bad you take it this way Phil!
I was not privy with Yip Man but who was?...Oh! I know somebody and I talked with him not so long ago...Ho Kam Ming!
Just want to be clear about this: I'm not dissing your lineage.You know what I meant really.I'm confident about this.
BTW,propaganda that diminishes others divises,usually and that...Is getting old.
Nothing personal Phil.

I know somebody too. In fact he lived with Yip Man for 3 years and I just just talked to him. na na na na na na. Sorry about that. I'm just in a really good mood right now. Take care Michel
Phil

[old jong]

Hey Phil! I'm in a good mood too!
Just let me know when you will be in Montreal.

BTW,The na na na na na thing was something else!...

[anerlich]

We don't only shift!

I never said you did, and I don't think Phil did either. My point was that tWC tends to use steps almost exclusvely, and thus to a lesser degree than Grond's style, who does the shifting.

I don't mention you or your style.

BTW, TWC does the sidekick differently to some other styles as well

[Vajramusti]

Andrewn- I sent you a pm-- but your box was full. I then sent you an email
at an old site address for you- nothing happened. It was not about this thread.

[anerlich]

Joy,

my mailbox should be empty now, or email me at anerlich@yahoo.com

[sihing]

My point was that all lineage have many ways to move around.The shifting is a very good development tool and is practical in many situations but there is more to it.We use steps also! (many kinds) And training makes them very fast.
I just want to clear that floating and strange idea that only TWC have footwork.Is that a marketing thing?...
Anyway,I don't believe it is a good thing to promote something by creating wrong ideas about others.
Let's keep this place a discussion forum for people...Not organisations propaganda.

Not to start something, but if this was the case then why is it that all you ever really see/read/hear when concerned with WC as a whole is exactly what we are talking about, shifting and dragging the feet. When I started training in WC, 99% of the material (media) that was out there in the magazines, books and video's was non-TWC, and when they wrote about footwork, they wrote about shifting and dragging the feet. The only exception was when I learned about HFY Wing Chun, which does not advocate shifting or dragging (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong), and I see alot of similarities between HFY and TWC. Since then, lots has changed and maybe that is due to exposure to other methods of WC that were once long lost. I'm not saying this is the case because no one can really know, but it is a possibility.

Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with showing weakness in a competing product, when marketing your own product, as GM Cheung did when showcasing his TWC. This is a free enterprise society and if the people representing the product shown with weakness can't take the criticism then do something about it. Disprove it. I do find it funny though that Cheung was if not the best fighter from the yester years of Hong Kong WC, at least equal to WSL in that regard, that people don't wonder why? Was he in that much better shape than everyone else he fought? Or maybe, just maybe he learned something different, that could have allowed him a slight edge? If, for e.g., Ho Kam Ming was the best fighter from Yip Man and his WC was very different from 99% of the rest of the WC clan, I would be asking allot of questions and wondering why?


James