Differences in the forms between lineages

[Phil Redmond]

I never said you did, and I don't think Phil did either. My point was that tWC tends to use steps almost exclusvely, and thus to a lesser degree than Grond's style, who does the shifting.

I don't mention you or your style. . . . .

Decorum is a good policy Andrew, especially when you're a minority.
Phil

[sihing]

Yes, this is a free enterprise society. But I see only you using the Kung-Fu forum to promote your wonderful, better-than-everyone-else's school.

My shifting and dragging and flying-spinning-upside-down-kick is not a weakness. Disprove it? To whose closed mind, Sihing? I've explained and everyone else seems to understand...maybe not agree, but understand.

Closed minded? Didn't I say in my posts, a few times, that even though I advocate the stepping method, I can use the shifting/dragging foot method if I want to and that ideally the stepping method is the one that would come out but since fighting is not in a ideal environment this is not always the case? Does that sound like a closed minded person? And who said anything about superiority? I didn't, maybe your imagining things again? I do have great faith in my school though and if you ask me which Martial Arts school in the city is the best I will tell you the one I belong to is and if you don't feel that way about yours then that is your problem....

James

[old jong]

Sihing and others-
As I said before my argument was never to talk against your system concerning it's particular ways and techniques.
I simply talked about a certain tendency to embelish something by diminishing something else on this forum.
Let me be clear about this: I don't care about you (generic) believing all the Hong Kong stories and legends you choose to.I have no time to lose trying to prove people wrong on the internet and I don't care about it.
So,if you read carefully,you will understand that I don't want to be drag into a forum lineage war or something.Try at least to answer in the subject's line of thoughts.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I think that you will find that stepping as opposed to shifting, dragging the foot may be more of a situational thing then a hard and fast rule. I also think that how one applies it will depend on their skill level as well.

For example: Shifting is more economical but it takes a higher degree of skill to pull it off against a real attack. Taking a step may be a bit slower but it is easier for the average person to pull off and is also a bit safer. There is also the additional possible benefit of moving off of the line and changing the angle. Another factor is just how far one shifts, do you shift 90' 45' or some other variant? Again, while one may have an ideal the actual result will vary depending on level of skill and situation.

Having said that I would like to point out that it is possible to move quickly in a forward line using a rear weighted Bic Bo with the feet very close to the ground. However, if one opts to step I think it is important to keep in mind that teh step could be made with only a minimal loss of contact with the ground. Much like stepping in Judo where the feet drag/step just above the surface.

FWIW my Sifu teaches more of a stepping approach and this seems geared towards being able to actually use the art in a quicker time frame. Of course this is just my opinion.

I think that if you take the time to consider all of the points and sitautions you will find that no one method is the end all be all. Rather you will find that both approaches have merit depending on the level and need at the time. You may also find that the ground surface also plays into things.

Is there really a lineage which never uses both methods and is truly exclusively one or the other??

Peace,

Dave

[sihing]

Well, as an instructor and when observing students chasing an retreating opponent while dragging their feet, would be considered Wrong in my book, and the student would be advised to slighty raise their feet off the ground. Now, as I said before, there are times when you will shift the feet from one direction to the other, depending on the degree of turn, just because things are happening very fast and the degree of turn may only be 10 or 20 deg, but the training system is to pick up the feet and turn &/or step ideally, but fighting is far from ideal. As someone that has been in the WC system for a long time, and never trained in the shifting/dragging feet method, I can still do that if I want to, but can a person trained in the shifting/dragging method over a long period of time, step if they have too? Which is the harder method to adapt to, I would think going from dragging/shifting to stepping/turning would be harder, IMO. In the end, it is not about perfection of WC movement in combat, but absorbing the system as you know it as best as you can and then when you need it, it is there for you.

James

[old jong]

James-
I respect what you say and believe in.My system is different in some points but is that so important?...Do you hear me telling everybody that my system is better than your's?...
All lines of Wing Chun can produce good practitioners.Technical and theorical details have a tendency to get smaller in a fight anyway.

BTW,it would be more proper to talk about various "styles" than systems.Wing Chun has many styles as karate or other martial arts does.Boxing have many styles too.Just choose a style that fits you.

Just my two CND cents!

[sihing]

Michel,

I believe in general all systems/styles of WC are effective. Since my Sifu is skilled in two such styles, he would know as well as anyone else. After he came back from Australia, with the TWC knowledge in him, he started to absorb it, and came to the realization that it was a more effective system of WC than what he had learned before, but he always told us that the hard style (modified or whatever you want to call it, non-TWC systems) of WC were also very effective and to not be taken lightly, just that they were not as complete or overall as effective as what he had learned. My own investigation has lead me to believe the samething, but I would never take a WC stylist from outside my lineage lightly. I don't believe there is anything wrong with stating that you think your system of WC is the most effective. I don't ever recall putting another down for learning another system of WC that is different from mine, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything they do. I've had disagreements in regards to concept and techniques with many on here from all sorts of WC lineages and that's okay, as this is a disscussion board and disagreements will arise, as long as it doesn't get personal (Victor P excluded, lol), then things that are fine.

James

[old jong]

James-
I have absolutely no intentions of getting "personal".As I said before;I respect what you say and believe.Good for you if you found the good system for you and I wish you all the best in it.
I have to say also that I agree with you on things regarding the meaning of martial arts.

[sihing]

James-
I have absolutely no intentions of getting "personal".As I said before;I respect what you say and believe.Good for you if you found the good system for you and I wish you all the best in it.
I have to say also that I agree with you on things regarding the meaning of martial arts.

Ditto for me Michel. All I wish for you is that you enjoy your Wing Chun as much as I enjoy mine, that's all that really matters.

James

[old jong]

Ditto for me Michel. All I wish for you is that you enjoy your Wing Chun as much as I enjoy mine, that's all that really matters.

James

Believe me,I do!...I am lucky also to have very good and dedicated students.My Sifu and I maintain a very good and friendly relastionship and we have regular meetings between our two schools.Soon,we will have our third annual Montreal/Ottawa Fong family seminar.How could I ask for more?...Wing Chun is a very big part of my life.

[sihing]

Believe me,I do!...I am lucky also to have very good and dedicated students.My Sifu and I maintain a very good and friendly relastionship and we have regular meetings between our two schools.Soon,we will have our third annual Montreal/Ottawa Fong family seminar.How could I ask for more?...Wing Chun is a very big part of my life.

Glad to hear you feel the same about your WC as I do mine. Best of luck for a successful seminar in Ottawa with Sifu Fong, I respect him as a high quality WC Sifu.

James