An review of bong sau

[Phil Redmond]

The TWC bong sau. Elbow higher than the wrist and wrist straight, not bent.
PR

[Vajramusti]

Big differenes between the two pics Phil.

[Phil Redmond]

Big differenes between the two pics Phil.

Yep camera angles. Both have the elbow higher than the wrist and BOTH have the wrist straight unlike most WC people. I can take one with the same angle as Yip Man for you and It'll look just like the TWC bong sau. My main point in posting that picture of Yip Man is the straight wrist and not the "broken wing" commonly seen. Oh of course the Wu Sau is off center in one picture but my main concern was the bong itself.
PR

[sihing]

Yes, agreed Phil. It looks like Yip is in a side stance, with his centerline on a angle facing right, to which would put his bon sao wrist on that same line. I agree also that this Bon is most similar to the TWC Bon, as compared to the other WC lineages that use the bent wrist version, lazy elbow/shoulder position.

James

[old jong]

IMHO,pics of "techniques" can only show the tip of the iceberg about a motion.You only see the look of the end of a movement.You don't see how it got there!...To me,the motion is a lot more important than how it looks at the end.

Considering this;any Wing Chun motion can turn itself into another during progression.Thus....Proving we are nt so robotic after all!...

BTW,I also don't bend the wrist in Bong Sau.The Wu Sau is not that high in my line.

[SAAMAG]

IMHO,pics of "techniques" can only show the tip of the iceberg about a motion.You only see the look of the end of a movement.You don't see how it got there!...To me,the motion is a lot more important than how it looks at the end.

Considering this;any Wing Chun motion can turn itself into another during progression.Thus....Proving we are nt so robotic after all!...

BTW,I also don't bend the wrist in Bong Sau.The Wu Sau is not that high in my line.

Very true OJ. My concern, and the some talk was made of it in the beginnings of this thread, was about getting from point A to B. (See the talk of the "spiral" and the "looking at watch")

I was also wanting people to talk about the triggers they use for bong sao. The "feeling" that would be the catalyst to use it. It seems that my triggers were not the same (or at the very least included other types of energy) then my current school does...(although andrew already cleared that up for me personally).

So far so good though...I think we're for the most part all on the same page at least.

[Phil Redmond]

IMHO,pics of "techniques" can only show the tip of the iceberg about a motion.You only see the look of the end of a movement.You don't see how it got there!...To me,the motion is a lot more important than how it looks at the end.

Considering this;any Wing Chun motion can turn itself into another during progression.Thus....Proving we are nt so robotic after all!...

BTW,I also don't bend the wrist in Bong Sau.The Wu Sau is not that high in my line.

You just reminded me Michel. I did do another YMWC that didn't have the "broken wing" bong sau. So TWC isn't the only lineage to have a straight wrist. Our Wu covers the upper gate in the bong sau just like it does in the dummy form. Since most people are headhunters we use our tan and wu to cover the head. Also, it's easier to drop your arm because they naturally hang down (and because of gravity), than it is to raise your arm to cover the upper gate. There is a crucial difference in milli seconds between raising an arm to cover the head and lowering the arm. I've also noticed that when people do a "low" tan or wu in their forms they have to raise their arms when they do the dummy form. You can't do a low tan, or wu sau on the upper dummy arms if it's mounted correctly according to the YM mounting method. YM said to find the proper height for mounting the dummy the practitioner should sit in their YJKYM and then extend their arms out and parallel to the floor. The dummy arm should be placed at that height for the individual. Duncan Leung also learned this method from YM. In his school there was only one dummy so he mounted it to the height of the tallest student. There were floor boards placed on a wall near the dummy so that the smaller students could place as many of these boards on top of each other until the proper height was attained. Yip Man also told this mounting method to the Cheung brothers when he gave them the plans for the first YM Hong Kong dummy.
Phil

[old jong]

Hey Phil!
My comment about the TWC Wu Sau was not a bad critic!...All Wing Chun motions can and have to be alive and adaptable for any situations so,the high or whatever small details about how they look as a finished move are not so important in the end.
Again,the thing is about how the Wu Sau gets there?...Is there some aliveness in it or is it just a pose?...(general question)

[Gangsterfist]

Which system? Do they exist in any of the northern Chinese system? Some northern system uses it for "baiting" purpose - to allow your opponent to grab your elbow and then counter it.

- You expose right elbow to him
- His left hand reach your right elbow.
- You rotate right forearm clockwise and reach his left elbow.
- You then bring his left elbow to your left hand.
- You then attack him with your free right hand.

I forgot to mention we train to keep the elbow above the shoulder and the arm out at a 120 degree angle.

As for similiar bong sao movements one form of gung fu comes to mind. Its called tai hui (or 6 elbows). It has a movement in it similiar to a bong sao but not quite used the same as wing chun uses it. I have also seen bong like movements in chin na applications. There was a thai system I saw once that I was told was chinese influenced, and it had bong like motions on the form but they were actually intended as elbow strikes. I can only assume the motion in the form was for training purposes, but then again I have never studied that so I could be getting the wrong impression just by looking at it. There is even a movement I have seen before thats very similiar to a bong sao but used in the opposite manner. The arms sweep up and coil around the bridge and then drop back down. Its a rather large movement but can be done if trained.

So, yeah I have seen the bong sao in other systems, I just have not seen any other system use it like wing chun does.