Tired of it

[Ray Pina]

A two dimensional figure is trapped in the box that surrounds him.....



How to explain our reality to a goldfish?



How to explain extraordinary things to the ordinary nonbeliever?

[Brad]

Or you could take matters into your own hands and not wait around for someone to prove your point for you Can't do it yourself? Find someone you think is really good an representative of trad. kungfu and help them be successful. Get involved, don't ride someone elses coat tails. Lots of good kungfu people have been stepping up and proving themselves in full contact fighting... it's not their fault certain segments of the traditional community ignore them or write them off as nothing more than "kickboxers" or not real kungfu. There's plenty of chances to support real kungfu/wushu fighters. The traditional community is wierd. As soon as someone does step up and prove they have real applicable skill, there's five guys waiting behind him to tear them down and disassociate the community from them.

But like you said, people just have to keep going out there and doing their own thing. I think the less kungfu people worry about fitting in with their little cliques, the more honest they'll be with themselves, and the better their training will be.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

The problem is in the unrealistic expectation that a single system is the end-all-be-all of self-defense.. or that even a generic system, like Karate, or Kung Fu, or BJJ, or, or, or.. it doesn't need to be the single best system out there, it only needs to be better than the guy that is actually trying to take you down.. sort of like , "i don't need to be faster than the lion, only faster than someone else"..

It is reasonable to expect that a KungFu trained fighter can hold his/her own in certain situations.. and i would like to think that certain Kung Fu fighters that train also to grapple, to use other style's strong points, like Muay Thai elbow and shin work, etc.. would honor their Kung Fu training.. too many jump into MMA and think it's cool to put down the foundation training they picked up in other arts.. most people i know in MMA have backgrounds in other, more traditional, styles.. But, the art of empty-hand combat is evolving, stay locked up in a tradition and you will stagnate.. respect your tradition and enhance its effectiveness with the necessary tools to meet the challenges of today's evolving fight game..

Be well..

[red5angel]

LOL! Afraid of Qi, that's a new one.

It turns out that just because one does not believe in a thing, does not mean he is afraid of a thing. You can manipulate the meaning of the word all you want but that doesn't make it any more real.

[David Jamieson]

LOL! Afraid of Qi, that's a new one.

It turns out that just because one does not believe in a thing, does not mean he is afraid of a thing. You can manipulate the meaning of the word all you want but that doesn't make it any more real.

wtf are you talking about red? where has anyone said (except you) "afraid of qi" in this thread?

[Becca]

LOL! Afraid of Qi, that's a new one.

It turns out that just because one does not believe in a thing, does not mean he is afraid of a thing. You can manipulate the meaning of the word all you want but that doesn't make it any more real.

Just because you don't believe in the same thing as another does not meen you are right.

Just because you have never seen something doesn't meen it doesn't exist.

Just because you refuse to look at something with anything but ridicule and a narrow mind does not make it less so...

You remind me of my 3 year-old son. "Mommy, I can't do it!"

"You meen you refuse to do it. You most certainly can."

"Fine. I don't want to do it."

"That doesn't change the fact that you have to, though..."


hmmmm... Yup. that definantly sound like most of the arguments around here. From both sides. Can't we just agree that we are never going to agree? If we all agreed, there would be no groth to our society or race...

[MasterKiller]

*MonkeySlap*

[SevenStar]

Greetings..

It has risen to the level of comical.. the degree of fear, and yes i say fear, that so many of you have of a simple word.. that word is Qi.. you hear/see it, then like a group of juiced-up apes start screaming and waving your arms, wildly beating your chests.. get over it..

KL, Red is talking about this statement.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

red5angel: To be exact, the statement asserts a fear of a "word", not its meaning.. which, by the way eludes you as well.. and, what's with this Helen stuff, how embarassing..

You can manipulate the meaning of the word all you want but that doesn't make it any more real. 

Likewise, you can be presented with reality all day long and still reject it.. but it's no less real.. Truth doesn't need belief to make it true, fire is hot believe it or not..

Be well..

[red5angel]

I'm talking about Taichibob's claim as 7* posted it. As usuall there is no well founded reasoning of what Qi is, and as usual it comes down to some mystical energy that you have to "believe" or some such garbage. this time around it's being rationalized as "bio-electricity" with a few extras

[red5angel]

Likewise, you can be presented with reality all day long and still reject it.. but it's no less real.. Truth doesn't need belief to make it true, fire is hot believe it or not..

I don't ever, ever ever ever ever want to hear this excuse come from you Qi guys again. It's weak and dismissal and allows you to go along your merry way misleading people as to what the human body is capable of. If you can't PROVE it without referring to "mysterious" and "unexplainable" effects it ain't gonna fly. that's the point, while everyone else can point at the basics as being sound biomechanical concepts, the Qi guys want to take it even further and try to explain this mystical crap that the ancient chinese - people I'll remind you AGAIN, had no fukking clue how the body really worked - professed to belive in. Now you've all been indoctrinated into believing that there's something else out there that you can attain, the human search for power beyond the mundane.
Get over it guys, you can't prove it, because it DOESN'T EXIST. Try manipulating the word to mean what you want, use it to slam together several already well defined categories of science and throw in a few mystical sets of forms if you want, you still can't prove "Qi" whatever you want to call it exists.
If you want to argue semantics, then move along with the rest of the world and use terms that make some fukking sense and are well defined. This isn't about fear, close mindedness or the willingness to disbelief, this is simple fukking common sense.
I will also not engage in a discussion of religion vs science or the mystical vs science. Science, is a system for proving or disproving, a way to explore the universe around us, it's not a way of life or a philisophical system so let's try to get past that grade school level argument about what's better, religion and science are no where in the same category.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

As usuall there is no well founded reasoning of what Qi is, and as usual it comes down to some mystical energy that you have to "believe" or some such garbage. this time around it's being rationalized as "bio-electricity" with a few extras

Okay, what is it about bio-electricity that you don't understand, red5angel.. its plain old hard science.. now, quit pickin' your nose and pay attention.. Qi is a word that has largely lost its mystical attachments except for a few people like yourself who find some benefit in using it to annoy others who have moved on with their consciousness.. you see, red5angel, most of us understand the science and can converse in a normal manner.. it is YOU talking about "mystical energy" while most of the rest are over it..

Be well..

[David Jamieson]

ok. I see.

But, what about the fact that you live and breath? What is that?
Qi literally translates as Breath. But by breath, in TCM (medicine) is not just the act of breathing and is more than just oxygen and other gases we consume to be alive.

It is more the entire process of taking in the breath and transforming it withinthe body and expelling the waste. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that process and I also understand that western and eastern mediacl sciences have pretty concise desciptions and definitions for the mechanics of why we stay alive, but not for life itself.

should we be nihilistic and say that everything does not exist because it cannot be explained with verbiage? I personally think that stance is not very useful for making progress.

anologously, I will take from the Tao te ching.

-We cannot call it 'void', nor can we call it 'not void', but for the purpose of pointing it out, we shall call it 'void' -

This can be applied to Qi, life or any number of things that we need to define in order to understand with our auto-dualism brains in action.

[red5angel]

But, what about the fact that you live and breath? What is that?

What do you mean what is that? do we need to get into a detailed discussion on the respiratory system? Or how life came to be?

Qi literally translates as Breath

I've heard several explanations for what it translates to be and what it is supposed to mean. For some it literally means air, or to breathe air, for other it is the spark of life. The former is just a use for a basic human requirement, the latter enters into the religious realm.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about that process and I also understand that western and eastern mediacl sciences have pretty concise desciptions and definitions for the mechanics of why we stay alive, but not for life itself.

uh, apparently my western sciences are different from yours? This discussion would take too long to have over the internet so I'm going to toss out some key words here; DNA, Evolution, Mutation, atomic and molecular bonding.

should we be nihilistic and say that everything does not exist because it cannot be explained with verbiage? I personally think that stance is not very useful for making progress.

I'm not saying that. What I AM saying is that sometimes you need to leave the bonds of your ancestors behind so that you can be allowed to progress. I'm saying that Qi is an outdated explanation of things we can now explain more concisely and that we have a pretty good handle on. Believing in Qi might seem to be open minded, but I argue that it is actually often a close minded way of looking at things.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Just once, i'm going to do this for fun.. red5angel:

If you want to argue semantics, then move along with the rest of the world and use terms that make some fukking sense and are well defined.

Now, here we have someone asking us to use terms that make some "fukking" sense and are well defined.. does anyone else see the irony in this..

Be well..