The Advantage of Wing Chun Kuen

[black and blue]

Ernie and James,

If you have developed this power then that's great. I, obviously, haven't met every WCK guy in the world, but have met many very experienced people from most YM lineages... and haven't seen it yet.

The hardest hitting of them was Maday Norbert (WingTsun) here in Hungary... but he's a big guy and could no doubt hit very hard with any punch from any system.

Maybe I've been exposed to lots of Wing Chunners but just not the right ones... but it at least shows (to me) that those I've come across (and I've met hundreds throughout Europe) don't have the power I've seen elsewhere. (generating power from contact, for example. No inch power - Bruce Lee was low level with his three inch punches... heheheehe )

Does anyone have footage of this: Wing Chun knockdown power from zero distance?

I still mix it up with Wing Chunners and learn lots from it. The art is nice... just not for me I guess.

But talking of methods and tools, power and usability, I know a WT living here in Europe who has recently switched to what he called "Shaolin Wing Chun". He's been very quiet on the details (he's taught privately) but it interested me. He's trained for 10 years or so and trains like a fanatic... he had his arse handed to him by someone who trains in this system twice a week and has been doing so for 2 years.

My friend said its Wing Chun to the eye, but the power development is very different, the core elements different, and the training methods very different. What convinced him to switch was not only this, but the fact that the guy who whooped him wasn't some fighting genius, just an average student of their master.

WCK's a funny art... the more I talk with friends and practitioners about it... the more confused I become.

[Ernie]

BB

zero inch knock out power that can really be used not just demo rebound stuff
no , since for that to work it's not just the proper mindset and mechanics but getting it there [position] is most of the work

i have played with Xing Yi guys , bagua guys in the past and if i just stand there they got juice , but boards don't hit back

what it takes for them to set up there position and focus is not IMO as effecient or realistic as lets say for arguments sake 3 inch wing chun power [ mechanics and position are more condusive to street fight ]

and of cours non of them have even scratched the surface of ''dare i say it '' skilled boxing [ in respect to functional power that comes from the motions of to people fighting ] but we are talking about different engines and training methods

what i mean is a boxer is better skilled at hitting and defending with his power and motion then pretty much every martial art on the planet - bit the training is different , what it takes to achieve and maintain is different

but in short i have felt a very very very very small amount of wing chun people that have the right blend of power ,position, timeing that are real world functional

[t_niehoff]

Ernie wrote:

zero inch knock out power that can really be used not just demo rebound stuff

**This is an excellent point -- a lot of stuff can work in demos and perhaps might work against "stiffs" in real application, but just won't work in situations where real pressure is on (against someone with good skills or attributes or both).

[Vajramusti]

Agree with much of what Ernie said- the differences are not worth arguing about.
The key is the right time , the right punch.
Joy

[sihing]

Ernie wrote:

zero inch knock out power that can really be used not just demo rebound stuff

**This is an excellent point -- a lot of stuff can work in demos and perhaps might work against "stiffs" in real application, but just won't work in situations where real pressure is on (against someone with good skills or attributes or both).

I agree to with Terence (believe it or not). Demo's with zero inch power against a non resisting partner in a prone stance are just examples of a particular way of doing things, not the pure form or application. But it must be noticed that people that can perform the demo properly do possess skills, but if that is all you got then you don't have the whole picture.

James

[black and blue]

Absolutely... hitting with this power 'on-the-fly' is the key.

But Bagua is all about change and movement, and XingYi all about stepping and hitting through the opponent (so both of you are moving). Of course, its all easier said than done.

At my level I'm just working on getting the power and issuing it properly... using it against fully resisting opponents is for later on. Cant' use what I don't have

What encourages me (in my current training) is that I have seen it in BG and XY (seen it against heavy bags, felt it against me standing still and seen it in fairly heavy sparring)... but haven't yet seen it in WCK (which is why I said its a WCK disadvantage - clearly hardly anyone has it).

[Vajramusti]

but haven't yet seen it in WCK (which is why I said its a WCK disadvantage - clearly hardly anyone has it).
__________________

((Depends on what circles you travel in.)))

[black and blue]

Yes, if there was a WCK circle of "zero-inch hitters" and I haven't met them.. then I wouldn't have seen it

I've met WCK players from France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Spain, the US, a small group from Australia (I met them in Germany, not too far from the WT headquarters - though they were TST lineage), and, of course, the UK. Not the whole world, I know.

Those people were from WT, TWC (ex-TWC), WSL, TST, and Yip Chun lineage. I've also met someone who said he was from Fong's line, but am not 100% sure of that . Not met anyone from Moy Yat lineage. Not the whole of Yip Man lineage, I know.

Are you saying you have this zero-inch power from Augustine Fong?

[Vajramusti]

Those people were from WT, TWC (ex-TWC), WSL, TST, and Yip Chun lineage. I've also met someone who said he was from Fong's line, but am not 100% sure of that . Not met anyone from Moy Yat lineage. Not the whole of Yip Man lineage, I know.
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((((((((((B and B-A lineage is an uneven thing. Good bad middling in all lineages. And even lineage holders have wide disparities in their own exposures to learning. Wing chun has spread too fast and rather badly. So I dont know or care(in an ivestigative sense) about what you have seen.
Most would be better off doing mma but hopefully not calling it wing chun.
I dont care to learn hsing yi. I have met hisng yi people and other people with power. As Ernie pointed out- one would be a fool to stand there and sample someone's power.If I just stand in front of shotokan sensei Koyama- he will break my ribs or worse. If I just stand there in front of the best chen taji people's fajing I will be hurt.(I have met some) Delivery systems and right timing and right power properly coordinated are very imortant.
You have asked something like this before- does good wing chun have one inch power, or 3 inch power or zero inch power. You betchum.Do you need it all the time.? Not necessarily. Right time, right place, right speed, right power.)))

[old jong]

At my level I'm just working on getting the power and issuing it properly... using it against fully resisting opponents is for later on. Cant' use what I don't have

Good!...You should be back talking about this when you'll finally learn it....If you are persistant enough?

[black and blue]

Well, I'm learning it now... so am interested in talking about it. Rather like you are learning WCK and come here to talk about it (unless you are suggesting you have 'learnt' it).



I certainly hope I can stay the course. I train the requirements every single day... other than quitting my job and training 24-7, I couldn't do much more.

Or are you making a dig because I left WCK for XY and BG? If so... grow up old man. I found something better for me with an extremely talented teacher... so jumped at the chance. Is this a bad thing to do, LOL.

[old jong]

Well,I teach Wing Chun at the moment!...
Good luck with your studies.