Star Wars Episode III (Spoilers, Questions & Answers)

[Akhilleus]

Hey guys I just saw it today and loved it...I'm sorry I don't have time to read this whole thread so I thought I'd post my thoughts on the film...

first the bad...the acting...Amidala or whatever her name is would be like "Oh no Annie, don't go to the dark side" and say it almost sarcastically, or like she didn't really care...then when Obi Wan sees the image of Annikan in the temple he was also like, "Oh no, I don't believe it" again, like it was no big deal...

Also it seemed kind of wierd that they would be like "Annie is turing to the dark side" and he has been "misled by lies" after his actions in the temple...as if said lies excuse his actions...sorry those quotes are from memory I think it was more like he has been deceived....

I felt kind of bad for Annie/Darth Vader especially at the end when he learns what happened to his wife or was it his fiance? But at the same time he did some very horrible things...

Anyway I thought it was a really good film...unfortunately I feel asleep for a bit when Obi Wan was fighting Vargus or whatever b/c I had been at the school from 7-2...

[Stranger]

A little help here, please:

1) How is it that R2 can fly in ATC and ROTS, but in ROTJ he takes a thirty foot header off of the side of Jabba's barge to get away with C3-P0? (seemed like a good time to fly)

2) Vader's armor has a solid shoulder armament (no articulated shoulder). How does he raise his hands over his heard? In ANH's and ESB's artwork, they always referred to Vader's stance as the "classic defensive posture" (blade held in one hand parallel to the ground) while Luke is depicted in jodan kamae, or "classic offensive posture" (blade held in both hands drawn up over head). Why would the jedi fight more offensively than a sith? I think Vader's armor wouldn't have allowed him to strike that pose.

3) Has Lucas ever explained why the cave on Dagobah is "strong with the Dark Side"? A spolier said that Dooku was killed there, but that clearly didn't happen in the movie.

4) After Senator Organna's fugitive like behavior, how does he not only avoid capture/prosecution, but also maintain his title and passes it to Leia? How is the sudden appearance of a girl child in his household considered unsuspicious?

5) Speaking of suspicious, how is it that nobody seems to notice Padme and Anakin making out in their initial rendezvous? How does nobody notice that she is pregnant? If they do, how is the 1+1=2 obviousness of Anakin being the father missed by all? She is under constant body guard protection and the only people she is ever alone with are Anakin, Jar-Jar, and her bodyguard with the eye patch. It wouldn't take the Force to solve this mystery.

6) Why doesn't Vader throw Force lightening up until the point he loses his second arm (if having organic arms are truly necessary to perform the skill)?

7)If Obi-wan and Luke's presence are hidden from Vader on Tattoine because Vader would never willingly return there, and Yoda uses the wildlife of Dagobah to cloak his presence, how is Leia's presence masked on Alderan? How do Luke and Leia avoid detection on Hoth?

8) Why is Darth Maul the only Sith using a double ended light sabre in the movies? Why didn't he throw Force lightening?

9) In PM, Darth Maul is able to use a Force projection attack on Obi-wan when Obi-wan gets angered and is not at one with Force. How is it that in ROTS, jedis Force project siths and siths project jedi all over the place? We never saw this in the original three movies.

[BibitClerus]

man i love SW
ill see the new one this week
cos this way i avoided the annoying crowds and etc.

BUT i do think your discussions can get pointless in here
its a movie dude
there are no real Jedi, you know

[Force Persuasion] You will cease your lame discussions on this thread and you will give me your sister's phone number.

[MasterKiller]

How is it that R2 can fly in ATC and ROTS, but in ROTJ he takes a thirty foot header off of the side of Jabba's barge to get away with C3-P0? (seemed like a good time to fly)

His boosters were recalled. Seriously.

Vader's armor has a solid shoulder armament (no articulated shoulder). How does he raise his hands over his heard? In ANH's and ESB's artwork, they always referred to Vader's stance as the "classic defensive posture" (blade held in one hand parallel to the ground) while Luke is depicted in jodan kamae, or "classic offensive posture" (blade held in both hands drawn up over head). Why would the jedi fight more offensively than a sith? I think Vader's armor wouldn't have allowed him to strike that pose.

Pass.

Has Lucas ever explained why the cave on Dagobah is "strong with the Dark Side"? A spolier said that Dooku was killed there, but that clearly didn't happen in the movie.

Yoda killed a Sith accolade in that cave , but not Dooku.

After Senator Organna's fugitive like behavior, how does he not only avoid capture/prosecution, but also maintain his title and passes it to Leia? How is the sudden appearance of a girl child in his household considered unsuspicious?

It's a big galaxy, full of orphans (especially after the Clone Wars).

Speaking of suspicious, how is it that nobody seems to notice Padme and Anakin making out in their initial rendezvous? How does nobody notice that she is pregnant? If they do, how is the 1+1=2 obviousness of Anakin being the father missed by all? She is under constant body guard protection and the only people she is ever alone with are Anakin, Jar-Jar, and her bodyguard with the eye patch. It wouldn't take the Force to solve this mystery.

She disguises her preganancy and doesn't tell anyone.

Why doesn't Vader throw Force lightening up until the point he loses his second arm (if having organic arms are truly necessary to perform the skill)

He chokes mutherfockers. That's his schtick.

If Obi-wan and Luke's presence are hidden from Vader on Tattoine because Vader would never willingly return there, and Yoda uses the wildlife of Dagobah to cloak his presence, how is Leia's presence masked on Alderan? How do Luke and Leia avoid detection on Hoth?

The force is mysterious. He does sense Luke once the probe driod shows them the settlement. The galaxy is massive, so I imagine trying to 'feel' someone out who doesn't want to be felt is like searching for a needle in haystack. The probe droid narrowed his focus, and BAM...he knows Luke is there. As for Leia, so what? He doesn't know he has 2 kids. He's obsessed with finding Luke, and he's got tunnel vision.

Why is Darth Maul the only Sith using a double ended light sabre in the movies? Why didn't he throw Force lightening?

Because it is too dangerous to fight with a Double Bladed saber. Only Maul was bad @ss enough to attempt it. He doesn't use lightning because he really enjoys killing people with his hands. Really.

In PM, Darth Maul is able to use a Force projection attack on Obi-wan when Obi-wan gets angered and is not at one with Force. How is it that in ROTS, jedis Force project siths and siths project jedi all over the place? We never saw this in the original three movies.

in the OT, you see Force Jumping, Force Invisibility, Force Choking, Force Lightning, Vader blocks laser bolts with his hands, Force Precognition, Force lifting (X-wing). It's all about diversity, man.

[Stranger]

1) Cheeky, but I'll buy it.

2)

3) Thanks

4) I might buy it, but Senator Organna had to be wanted after he went on the run with Yoda. I think he would have had to answer for it, and in the answering his proximity to Vader and/or Sidious would have left his mind wide open.

5) She didn't hide it well in the movie. I have 15 year old students that can hide a pregnancy better than that.

6) Thanks

7) It's a big universe, but actually walking the very hallways of the Hoth base where his daughter's strong Force presence once was would leave pychometric footprints....or not.

8) True, thanks to Ray Park, DM was a better melee fighter than any other Sith.

9) True, but I thought that things like projection and the mind tricks only worked on those not at one with the Force.


MK,

Thanks for the answers. I knew you'd have them.

[lada]

I may as well add my pointless opinion huh?

The droids in the beginning of the movie was when I knew it was a loser. The skinny guard droids? Did you listen to them talk? They sounded like Jar Jar Binks only stupider. One of those little guard droids handed something to Grevious. Grevious rips it out of his hands. The skinny guard droid says "your welcome", sarcastically, like he is C3P0 or something.

Come on. If Grevious is a super bad ass, he is going to take lip from a skinny guard droid? Just like Darth Vader, the scene should have been an opportunity to establish how Grevious was powerful and heartless. He should have destroyed the droid in some spectacular way for being sarcastic.

Grevious is a robot. Why do robot's cough? That has got to the be stupidest thing in any movie I have ever seen. A coughing robot. Robot's don't even breath do they?

Annakin. I really despise that kid. Lucas chose him because he reminded Lucas of what he looked like at that age. Lucas wanted to star in his films so he chose that guy as Annakin. The kid has the acting talent of a floating turd. He is so unlikable I want to smash him in the face because he is such a whiny pud. Really!

I agree with the guy talking about R2. WTF? He starts jumping and flying like he is an X men or something! The whole point of R2 is that he is a defenseless little droid who needs protection so he can do the brainiac thing. If R2 is superdroid, he is not adorable anymore.

The movie was as bad Phantom Menace. Too much reliance on CG and no humanity too it. Star Wars was good because Lucas took unknowns and made them into the characters. The characters were real people that were likable.

This series, Lucas got star actors. He chose Obi Wan because that guy was famous. Like 5 years ago. Everytime I see Samuel Jackson, I see some mad black guy with gun blasting whitey. Palpatine is the only good character and he is evil! You don't want the evil guy to be the only likable one in the movie unless you are recruiting for evil.

You know how you can tell Lucas was desperate? When he takes a little mannikan, Yoda, and makes him the star of the show. Yoda showed more humanity in the fight with Palpatine than any of the human actors. There are some real problems with a movie where a mannikin is the best actor.

The sheer desperation for attention the movie put on me made me so uncomfortable I was literally squirming. I swear the movie was screaming "like me. Please, Please like me! These are really big computer scenes! This is a really cool robot! These bad guys are really bad! Please, Please, Please like me!".

[SimonM]

Grevious is a robot. Why do robot's cough? That has got to the be stupidest thing in any movie I have ever seen. A coughing robot. Robot's don't even breath do they?

Despite many flaws in the movie, this was not one. Grievous was a cyborg. Robot arms, robot legs, robot outer shell, living heart, eyes and (I imagine) lungs. That's why he gets so touchy about being called a robot.

I agree with the guy talking about R2. WTF? He starts jumping and flying like he is an X men or something! The whole point of R2 is that he is a defenseless little droid who needs protection so he can do the brainiac thing. If R2 is superdroid, he is not adorable anymore.

This can be summed up (like so much else in the Ep. 1-3 trilogy) with one simple phrase:

George Lucas is a crackpot who was at his creative peak in the 1970's and 1980's. And for some reason he gets off on flying, beeping trashcans.

Why doesn't Vader throw Force lightening up until the point he loses his second arm (if having organic arms are truly necessary to perform the skill)?

Because Force Lightening is next to useless against an armed and fully trained Jedi. Luke Skywalker was the most sloppily trained Jedi in the history of the order, Yoda and Obi Wan probably forgot to mention that he could ground out Force Lightening with his light sabre.

In PM, Darth Maul is able to use a Force projection attack on Obi-wan when Obi-wan gets angered and is not at one with Force. How is it that in ROTS, jedis Force project siths and siths project jedi all over the place? We never saw this in the original three movies.

Look at the force-users in the original trilogy:

Luke is about equal to a half-trained adolescent Padawan.

Obi Wan is a geriatric who complains that he is "getting too old for this" and who throws his one fight.

Yoda is a muppet.

The Emperor is even older than Obi Wan and doesn't look to be in the best of health. After all Vader is thinking about rubbing him out in "Empire Strikes Back" and does drop him in "Return of the Jedi" (rather literally).

Vader was a ****y, arrogant ******* thirty years before the start of "A New Hope", when he was a Padawan Teenager with Angst issues. He hasn't had a lightsabre duel in twenty years at the start of "A New Hope" and Obi Wan basically gives in without a fight. He's ****y, he makes mistakes.

Leia is barely aware of her potential abilities even at the END of "Return of the Jedi".

Nobody really knows much about Jabba's force strength except that he is immuned to Jedi Mind Tricks issued by half-trained Padawans.

Now let's compare this to the force users in the new series:

Obi Wan is in his prime.

Annakin/Vader is in his prime and fighting constantly.

Palpatine is merely very old and hasn't been on the recieving end of his own Lightening yet.

Darth Maul seems to have actually taken a martial arts lesson or two.

Qui Gon is so strong in the force he figures out how to turn himself into a ghost, apparently (according to Yoda) this is a first.

Mace Windu is protected by not only the force but also by the "Samuel L. Jackson Cool".

Yoda is a CGI monstrosity, not a muppet.

Dookoo is played by Count Dracula himself, you know that he is at least going to have style.

I don't think I am missing any of the big names...

[MasterKiller]

Because Force Lightening is next to useless against an armed and fully trained Jedi. Luke Skywalker was the most sloppily trained Jedi in the history of the order, Yoda and Obi Wan probably forgot to mention that he could ground out Force Lightening with his light sabre.

Look at the force-users in the original trilogy:

Luke is about equal to a half-trained adolescent Padawan.

Obi Wan is a geriatric who complains that he is "getting too old for this" and who throws his one fight.

Yoda is a muppet.

The Emperor is even older than Obi Wan and doesn't look to be in the best of health. After all Vader is thinking about rubbing him out in "Empire Strikes Back" and does drop him in "Return of the Jedi" (rather literally).

Vader was a ****y, arrogant ******* thirty years before the start of "A New Hope", when he was a Padawan Teenager with Angst issues. He hasn't had a lightsabre duel in twenty years at the start of "A New Hope" and Obi Wan basically gives in without a fight. He's ****y, he makes mistakes.

Leia is barely aware of her potential abilities even at the END of "Return of the Jedi".

Nobody really knows much about Jabba's force strength except that he is immuned to Jedi Mind Tricks issued by half-trained Padawans.

Now let's compare this to the force users in the new series:

Obi Wan is in his prime.

Annakin/Vader is in his prime and fighting constantly.

Palpatine is merely very old and hasn't been on the recieving end of his own Lightening yet.

Darth Maul seems to have actually taken a martial arts lesson or two.

Qui Gon is so strong in the force he figures out how to turn himself into a ghost, apparently (according to Yoda) this is a first.

Mace Windu is protected by not only the force but also by the "Samuel L. Jackson Cool".

Yoda is a CGI monstrosity, not a muppet.

Dookoo is played by Count Dracula himself, you know that he is at least going to have style.

I don't think I am missing any of the big names...

Word.



I think when the Emperor says to Vader "Only one other has learned this power, but with your help we can discover it together..." he is talking about Qui-Gon as well.

BTW...Qui-Gon isn't a full-blow Force ghost. He's just a "voice." He tells Yoda in the novel that perhaps, with time and training, they may learn how to merge their physical self with the Force.

[Shaolinlueb]

Word.



I think when the Emperor says to Vader "Only one other has learned this power, but with your help we can discover it together..." he is talking about Qui-Gon as well.

BTW...Qui-Gon isn't a full-blow Force ghost. He's just a "voice." He tells Yoda in the novel that perhaps, with time and training, they may learn how to merge their physical self with the Force.

so how does darth learn to do it at the end of return of the jedi? is that something he learned as a sith?

[MasterKiller]

so how does darth learn to do it at the end of return of the jedi? is that something he learned as a sith?

No one ever says, officially. But here's my take:

Qui-Gon gets shocked out of "death" in EP II when Anakin goes ballistic on the Sand People. This causes tremors in the Force, which Sidious surely picked up on. He recruits Vader to help him figure out how it happened.

When Vader kills Obi-Wan in EP IV and he disappears, Vader freaks out. He stomps the robes like "WTF???? Sidious never told me about this!" So, he studies the Force idependently and trains himself.

Now, let's takes a look at the ROTS novel for a moment:

Yoda: My failure this was. Failed the Jedi, I did.

Qui-Gon: Do not blame yourself, my old friend.

Yoda: Too old I was. Too rigid. Too arrogant to see that the old way is not the only way. These Jedi I trained to become Jedi who had trained me, long centureis ago--but those ancient Jedi, of a different time they were. Changed, has the galaxy. Change, the order did not--because let it change---I did not.

Qui-Gon: More easily said than done, my friend.

Yoda: An infinite mystery is the Force. Much to learn, there still is.

Qui-Gon: And you will have time to learn it.

Yoda: Infinite knowledge.. infinite time, does that require.

Qui-Gon: With my help, you can learn to join with the Force, yet retain consciousness. You can join your light to it forever. Perhaps in time, even your physical self.

Yoda: Eternal life...

Qui-Gon: The ultimate goal of the Sith, yet they can never achieve it. It comes only by the release of self, not the exaltation of self. It comes through compassion, not greed. Love is the answer to the Darkness...

Yoda: Become one with the Force, yet influence still to have... A power greater than all, it is.

Qui-Gon: It cannot be granted; it can only be taught. It is yours to learn, if you wish it.

So, Vader has the knowledge of how to do it. He knows it's possible. It's his sacrifice for Luke that gives him the ability in the end to merge with the Force. His selflessness in saving his son.

[Vash]

So, is it possible to gain "eternal life" via merging with the force the way Qui-Gon teaches, or does that lead to eventual dissolution of consciousness?

[MasterKiller]

So, is it possible to gain "eternal life" via merging with the force the way Qui-Gon teaches, or does that lead to eventual dissolution of consciousness?

They all eventually lose their ability to retain their identity in the Force.

[Shaolinlueb]

They all eventually lose their ability to retain their identity in the Force.

do they train luke at all and help him along the way or can they only appear for moments at a time?

[MasterKiller]

do they train luke at all and help him along the way or can they only appear for moments at a time?

They train him, somewhat. But it's not like they can interact with him. Obi-Wan can't pick up a lightsaber and show him a move, but they do talk to him and guide his training, and offer advice from time-to-time.

[Shaolinlueb]

They train him, somewhat. But it's not like they can interact with him. Obi-Wan can't pick up a lightsaber and show him a move, but they do talk to him and guide his training, and offer advice from time-to-time.

thats what i meant. obviously he cant pick up a light saber. im surprised they dont talk about in the EU more. i would think anakin would appear more to his son to help him.