5 Animal Kenpo and Shoalin Kung Fu

[sean_stonehart]

Maybe... but then again I just said there's no such thing as Chinese Kem(n)po...

I didn't say what you did was fake or false or anything else. I just said there's nothing from China that exists called Kem(n)po... now did I?

[Judge Pen]

Hold the press. . . . I thought Kem(n)po was a blend of karate and kung fu? (Which is like blending coal and diamonds)

[sean_stonehart]

Becca... since you study Pai Lum... here's a conversation from another board involving a guy who apparently knew DKP pretty well as well as his training resume...

http://www.forumco.com/hungkuennet/t...IC_ID~2803.asp

[GeneChing]

Fa has two definitions: 1. law (as in abide the law) and 2. method or way (as in teaching or pedagogical methodology). Usually people use the second definition when it comes to quan fa.

[MasterKiller]

What? I know you guys are probably referring to junk in America with these Ed Parker and 'Professor' Chow characters, but kenpo and kempo are the exact same word and the exact same pronounciation. Basically it refers to any boxing method (that is not karate) that exists in Japan or Okinawa. The two bigger arts that use 'kenpo' in the name are Shorinji kenpo (Shaolin boxing) and Nihon kenpo (Japanese boxing, includes throws and locks).

Shorinji Kempo was founded by a man named Michiomi Nakano who was a member of the a japanese criminal organization (Black Dragon Society) which began acting in concert with the imperial government at that time. Nakano reputedly acted as an agent providing intelligence to Japanese authorities in manchuria. After the wall he claimed he was initiated in the the Giwamonken temple which he eventually became successor naming taking the budhist name "Doshin SO" and refering to his style as Shorinji kempo.His claims were hotly contested and In 1972 he was on the losing end of a law suit by a group of chinese living in japan and as a result the japanese court action agreed to refer to his style as "Nippon Shorinji Kempo". A little research will reveal to you that his "System" is in fact a creative Blend of Kango Zen , Shorinji Kenkokan Karate (Nakano trained under Masayoshi Hisataka for a while)and Hakko ryu Jujutsu (which he studied under Okuyama Ryuho)and both of these unique systems are clearly visable in the training of Nippon Shorinji Kempo.

[Starchaser107]

Wowsa,
MK has the exposé on everything

[GeneChing]

MK is right, or at least concurs with what I've heard. Shorinji kempo (aka Nippon-den Seito Shorinji Kempo) is now headed by So Doshin's daughter. In fact, in the early editions of the movie Shaolin Temple, the 'historic pilgrimage' of So Doshin and his daughter to Shaolin is documented in the intro - that scene is deleted from many later editions.
But there are other Shorin and Shorinji schools, mostly found in Okinawa. It's horribly confusing for me, since I don't really specialize in Japanese research, but I'm sure someone has sorted it all out somewhere.

As for Kempo, it is confusing too. It's part of the name of many Karate schools. Beyond Parker's and So Doshin's, there is Uechi Kanei's Kempo Kai (aka ****o ryu, but don't pronounce it *that* way), Kuda Yuichi's Matsumura Kenpo Shorin Ryu, and Nakamura Shigeru & Odo Seikichi's Okinawa Kenpo. Even more confusing is the fact that by using another character, kenpo becomes 'sword method' (ken as in kendo or jian dao in Mandarin).

[pazman]

The word 'kenpo' is actually a bit archaic, which is probably why I've never heard 'quan fa' in kung fu circles, though there a hundred kenpo students in America ready to jump my case and say that real name for kungfu/wushu/whatever is really 'quan fa.' Meh.

There's a whole host of names of old empty-handed striking arts in Japan, ken and kenpo being among them. 'Kenpo' translated as 'law of the fist' is about the corniest translation I've heard yet. 'Kenpo' as far as I know was never used to describe fencing arts.

The word 'ken' is used to nowadays to give proper names to kung fu styles in Japan. Hakkyokuken, taikiken, taikyokuken, etc.

[GeneChing]

I hear quanfa in kung fu circles all the time. It appears in a lot of Chinese texts.

I've always felt that the translation of kenpo to "fist law" was just a poor translation that stuck just because it was the precedent. It's like someone ran it through the dictionary and grabbed the first definition. That happens a lot in the martial arts. Many early martial translators did poor work. For example, I've always had problems with the translation of 'dao' as 'broadsword'. Technically speaking, the jian is closer to what western hopologists call a broadsword, especially the earlier ones.

[Becca]

Becca... since you study Pai Lum... here's a conversation from another board involving a guy who apparently knew DKP pretty well as well as his training resume...

He did study in Okinawa as a boy, and China as a grown man. But no mention was made, how ever, of his having studied under his grandfather, Po Fong Pai. He was born in Hawaii and was second generation American. And as to who is the "real" grandmaster depends upon which of his abopted nephews you study under. Glen is one who claims to be. there are two others. Most all other clans, if you will, do not recognize any living grandmaster since Grandmaster Pai passed away sudenly and did not make his choice public.

[cerebus]

Well, MK is very correct about the history of the art currently known as "Shorinji Kempo". However this has very little to do with most of the Kempo/ Kenpo arts taught in the U.S. today.

All of the modern American Kenpo/ Kempo (except those deriving directly from Japanese or Okinawan lineages) is composite in nature. It began in the 1930s in Hawaii with James Masayoshi (Masakichi) Mitose. Mitose originally called his art "Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu" and claimed to have learned it at his family's temple in Japan (though this has been in dispute for awhile). He claimed that it originally came from the Shorin Ji (Shaolin Temple) in China (he also told some of his students that he had learned it from the famous Okinawan Kenpo master Choki Motobu). Wherever it came from, it looks like a blend of Okinawan Karate (which was often referred to as "Kenpo" or "Kempo" at the time) and Japanese Jiu-Jitsu.

Mitose trained several people to the level of Black Belt in his art. The most important of these for the modern American Kem/npo arts was William Kwai Sun Chow. Chow went on to add circular "Kung-Fu" type movements to the art to make it smoother and more "flowing". Chow claimed to have learned Kung-Fu from his father, however Chow's siblings denied that their father had ever trained in the martial arts. It has been revealed by many who were close to Chow that he actually claimed that his father taught him Kung-Fu in his dreams (his father being deceased by that time). Wherever his "Kung-Fu" knowledge came from, he blended it with the Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu he had learned from Mitose and called his art "Kenpo Karate" because few people had heard of Kenpo but many had at least a rough idea of what Karate was (this was the 1940s/1950s).

Chow went on to teach Edmund K. Parker who created American Kenpo Karate, Ralph Castro who created Shaolin Kenpo (spelled with the "n"), Nick Cerio whose student Fred Villari created Shaolin Kempo (spelled with the "m"), and Adriano Emperado one of the founders (and currently the leader) of Kajukenbo.

Mitose's top student Thomas Young continued to teach the original Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu (which Mitose started calling "Kosho Ryu" Kenpo after he moved to the mainland U.S.) in Hawaii. Mitose's son, Thomas Barro Mitose (a former student of Adriano Emperado) currently claims to be the head of his father's art. Also Bruce Juchnik (who was, I believe, a former Ed Parker or Al Tracey Kenpo instructor) spent time visiting Mitose in Folsom Prison (where he was incarcerated for extortion and murder until his death in the 1980s) and currently claims to be the head of the "Kosho Shorei" Kenpo.

Anyway, all of the current instructors have had students break away and "create" their own versions of the arts they learned, so there are now over a hundred versions of these arts in the U.S., all derived from Mitose's Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu.

Hope that helps to clear matters up. Peace.

[cerebus]

Oh, and Gene, when speaking of Uechi Kanei's Karate did you write "Shi to" Ryu? (It came out as "****o ryu"). If so, that's actually incorrect. Shi to Ryu was founded by Kenwa Mabuni. Uechi Kanei's Karate is Uechi Ryu.

[Becca]

Well, MK is very correct about the history of the art currently known as "Shorinji Kempo". However this has very little to do with most of the Kempo/ Kenpo arts taught in the U.S. today.

All of the modern American Kenpo/ Kempo (except those deriving directly from Japanese or Okinawan lineages) is composite in nature. It began in the 1930s in Hawaii with James Masayoshi (Masakichi) Mitose. Mitose originally called his art "Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu" and claimed to have learned it at his family's temple in Japan (though this has been in dispute for awhile). He claimed that it originally came from the Shorin Ji (Shaolin Temple) in China (he also told some of his students that he had learned it from the famous Okinawan Kenpo master Choki Motobu). Wherever it came from, it looks like a blend of Okinawan Karate (which was often referred to as "Kenpo" or "Kempo" at the time) and Japanese Jiu-Jitsu.

Mitose trained several people to the level of Black Belt in his art. The most important of these for the modern American Kem/npo arts was William Kwai Sun Chow. Chow went on to add circular "Kung-Fu" type movements to the art to make it smoother and more "flowing". Chow claimed to have learned Kung-Fu from his father, however Chow's siblings denied that their father had ever trained in the martial arts. It has been revealed by many who were close to Chow that he actually claimed that his father taught him Kung-Fu in his dreams (his father being deceased by that time). Wherever his "Kung-Fu" knowledge came from, he blended it with the Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu he had learned from Mitose and called his art "Kenpo Karate" because few people had heard of Kenpo but many had at least a rough idea of what Karate was (this was the 1940s/1950s).

Chow went on to teach Edmund K. Parker who created American Kenpo Karate, Ralph Castro who created Shaolin Kenpo (spelled with the "n"), Nick Cerio whose student Fred Villari created Shaolin Kempo (spelled with the "m"), and Adriano Emperado one of the founders (and currently the leader) of Kajukenbo.

Mitose's top student Thomas Young continued to teach the original Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu (which Mitose started calling "Kosho Ryu" Kenpo after he moved to the mainland U.S.) in Hawaii. Mitose's son, Thomas Barro Mitose (a former student of Adriano Emperado) currently claims to be the head of his father's art. Also Bruce Juchnik (who was, I believe, a former Ed Parker or Al Tracey Kenpo instructor) spent time visiting Mitose in Folsom Prison (where he was incarcerated for extortion and murder until his death in the 1980s) and currently claims to be the head of the "Kosho Shorei" Kenpo.

Anyway, all of the current instructors have had students break away and "create" their own versions of the arts they learned, so there are now over a hundred versions of these arts in the U.S., all derived from Mitose's Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu.

Hope that helps to clear matters up. Peace.

Fits well with what I've been taught... Thanx!

[Fen]

Well, MK is very correct about the history of the art currently known as "Shorinji Kempo". However this has very little to do with most of the Kempo/ Kenpo arts taught in the U.S. today.

All of the modern American Kenpo/ Kempo (except those deriving directly from Japanese or Okinawan lineages) is composite in nature. It began in the 1930s in Hawaii with James Masayoshi (Masakichi) Mitose. Mitose originally called his art "Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu" and claimed to have learned it at his family's temple in Japan (though this has been in dispute for awhile). He claimed that it originally came from the Shorin Ji (Shaolin Temple) in China (he also told some of his students that he had learned it from the famous Okinawan Kenpo master Choki Motobu). Wherever it came from, it looks like a blend of Okinawan Karate (which was often referred to as "Kenpo" or "Kempo" at the time) and Japanese Jiu-Jitsu.

Mitose trained several people to the level of Black Belt in his art. The most important of these for the modern American Kem/npo arts was William Kwai Sun Chow. Chow went on to add circular "Kung-Fu" type movements to the art to make it smoother and more "flowing". Chow claimed to have learned Kung-Fu from his father, however Chow's siblings denied that their father had ever trained in the martial arts. It has been revealed by many who were close to Chow that he actually claimed that his father taught him Kung-Fu in his dreams (his father being deceased by that time). Wherever his "Kung-Fu" knowledge came from, he blended it with the Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu he had learned from Mitose and called his art "Kenpo Karate" because few people had heard of Kenpo but many had at least a rough idea of what Karate was (this was the 1940s/1950s).

Chow went on to teach Edmund K. Parker who created American Kenpo Karate, Ralph Castro who created Shaolin Kenpo (spelled with the "n"), Nick Cerio whose student Fred Villari created Shaolin Kempo (spelled with the "m"), and Adriano Emperado one of the founders (and currently the leader) of Kajukenbo.

Mitose's top student Thomas Young continued to teach the original Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu (which Mitose started calling "Kosho Ryu" Kenpo after he moved to the mainland U.S.) in Hawaii. Mitose's son, Thomas Barro Mitose (a former student of Adriano Emperado) currently claims to be the head of his father's art. Also Bruce Juchnik (who was, I believe, a former Ed Parker or Al Tracey Kenpo instructor) spent time visiting Mitose in Folsom Prison (where he was incarcerated for extortion and murder until his death in the 1980s) and currently claims to be the head of the "Kosho Shorei" Kenpo.

Anyway, all of the current instructors have had students break away and "create" their own versions of the arts they learned, so there are now over a hundred versions of these arts in the U.S., all derived from Mitose's Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu.

Hope that helps to clear matters up. Peace.

I do not train in Kenpo (AIKKA and IKKA) anymore, but what Cerebus posted is right on for the most part... His post goes with the history I have on Ken(m)po that I got from Doc. Since Master Ed Parker Sr.'s death, his black belts from 8th and up proclaim to be 10th dan now... It's sad to say, but what a bunch of money hungyy a$$es!

~Jason

[Yum Cha]

Here's an interesting link to a lineage entitled Okinawan karate.

http://www.kojosho.com/lineage.html

The style kojosho considers itself a Kenpo, and there is an interesting lineage chart that shows the development and evolution of Okinawan karate.

I know the Master, Fred Abshere, is a fine martial artist with credentials so I suggest he has done his research.