Liu He Praying Mantis

[BeiTangLang]

Save the $86 & use it on a Master Hu seminar....the money will be much better spent

(One of the mot amazing people I've ever met)

[Blacktiger]

Yep I could not agree more-trying to learn this stuff off video would be a nightmare, your not going to get the feel for it like that or the applications.........Pause rewind pause rewind

[Shadowboxer]

Jake,

I could send you some clips from the seminars this weekend to put up if you like. Send me a PM. I've been watching the Master Hu footage in slow motion. One word--SWEET!!

[Three Harmonies]

Shadowboxer,
HA! I say again HA! You saw my camera. You heard the **** I got. I have NO CLUE how to post vids on the net
But I give you full permission to share a couple (please do not get too carried away). I have been waiting for one of you guys to mention it. Hu Laoshi is cool with it all. Give folks a taste if you would not mind please.
For those who will be in Germany, these clips will be similar to what you will learn....just coming from me....so a lot slower, and not quite as smooth (I have white mans disease: can't run / jump etc. ). Thanks.

Learning Liuhe from a video is totally useless. The small little intricacies(?) are so subtle you can barely get them when directly taught (as most will attest too that went to Sundays seminar!). I have dabbled in many different arts over the past 14 years, and I can honestly say Liuhe Tanglang is hands down the most difficult art to learn (hence not many teaching it). And martial arts usually come rather easy to me learning wise! Great effective stuff, but very difficult to do. The forms are pretty easy though.

Cheers
Jake

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

my lilingpi instructor only showed the forms he taught us once per student. we had to learn from watching him do it in our memories to pass the test or secretly meet other students and practice together. i think i can learn your forms from video without too much difficulty.


i figure the average student can spend 90 bucks on two months of instruction or the same on a video library and probably come out ahead with the library. after they finish a vid form or set of forms then go to an instructor and have him refine your technique.

liu he mantis resembles hop gar that i've seen. i have a liu he vid but was not that impressed with the forms. there was one worth learning: the 36 elbows form, and augmenting it with only two other techniques from the six other forms on the disc. Yes, it is good compared to a lot of things but Mei hua mantis i think is more advanced in its inclusion of other stylistic elements. and more deserving of my effort.

the good thing about a vid library is you might never catch that nuance with an instructor but with the vid you can rewind and see it as many times as is neccessary to get it right.

and if you can't figure out the applications you probably shouldn't be studying martial arts...perhaps gunsmithing.

[BeiTangLang]

Everyone has their thoughts for sure.

From last weekends expreience, I can easily say that the applications Master Hu showed (at least the ones he demo'd) _must_ be learned hands on. One technique thats sticks in my mind the most, the did 3 times in a row tossing the assitant student to the ground. I still didn't pick up how he did it by watching....& I am no slouch at picking up movements either.
Best of luck in picking that one out of a form.

I am a WHF student, but I must say that LHPM has piqued my curiosity, thought process and made me look a little more at what my own mantis holds that I have not yet learned.

MTV is cool, but nothing rocks you like a concert.

[Blacktiger]

Look all I can say is that if you think you know what Liu He Mantis is about from checking out a video or 3 and trying to pick the bits out that you think are the best your not going to get very far.... And will have no real understanding of the art at all


The most important thing about learning this style is that it has to be felt. Learning to get the power generation from the waist or Dan Tien with the techniques and applications is very tricky....You really need to learn this in the flesh with a teacher and then go run drills with all the applications with your class mates.

Looking at some of these techniques from a video would give you no clue what so ever of where the power/mechanics are coming from. As BeiTangLang said he saw a technique three times right in front of him and he still could not pick up how the move was executed.
This style is sooo fast and very powerful once you have got it all down. I would like to see someone who has learned from video go up against another who has trained in the flesh.
My guess is the video guy would be all arms flying round with brute force all over the place. Where as when you actually train this stuff with a teacher you discover its all internal-arms like big dead weights! You aint gonna get those liitle gems from learning Beta Max Fu - your in dream land in your lounge room

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

I am a WHF student,

MTV is cool, but nothing rocks you like a concert.

WHF as Wai Hung Fot? concerts are cool until you miss something when you go to the bathroom...

ask tai yim sifu, hung fot sigung, which mantis style would be a better challenge for you.

[BeiTangLang]

WHF as Wai Hung Fot?.

No.

concerts are cool until you miss something when you go to the bathroom....

We must not go to the same kinds of concerts.

ask tai yim sifu, hung fot sigung, which mantis style would be a better challenge for you.

Don't know who they are, but I train in what I think is bes, Not what someone else thinks is the most challenging.


From last weekends expreience, I can easily say that the applications Master Hu showed (at least the ones he demo'd) _must_ be learned hands on. One technique thats sticks in my mind the most, the did 3 times in a row tossing the assitant student to the ground. I still didn't pick up how he did it by watching....& I am no slouch at picking up movements either.
Best of luck in picking that one out of a form.

[Blacktiger]

QUOTE
"if you didn't learn basic power generation from stance use in your beginning years learning it at your advanced intermediate years basically forces you to relearn your martial kinesthetics. it may be your style's way of keeping students over the long period."

Sorry but this in not basic power generation and I have assumed when stating some facts on this style that people already have an understanding of this. But I do agree that if that skill is not learned in the early years its difficult to pick up later.

Look I have no idea what you have trained in but 10 out of 10 punters who start this and who think they have their waist down are blown away with how much more power is availalbe with this style.

All in all you dont have to go to the Grandmaster I assume your talking about Liu Jing Ru and he is not the linage holder of this system but studied with one of the early founders- Shan Xiang Ling.....From what I have heard from Jake at Three Harmonies and everyone on the boards they teach great stuff...Check it out as there are not many people teaching this round the world.

[Three Harmonies]

YZDZ
You have some strange ideas. Liuhe looks nothing like any of the Hop gar I have seen. I am not sure you are talking about the same Liuhe TANGLANG. As for Meihua being better...matter of opinion I suppose. If one can master the Liuhe fighting I cannot see much getting in the way.
Jake

[Blacktiger]

Word

Quote
"most of the vids i have are of supposedly intermediate forms. that is the reference point i use to judge a style because that's where serious students and style mechanics are developed/introduced"

This is the other thing- What intermediate forms there are no intermediate forms you must learn them all, there are only 7 in all including weapons.
If you dont get the first one your not going to get 2,3,4 etc etc...Its like walking in half way through a concert and saying you know whats going on.

What type of videos do you have and who is demonstrating

And yes you do have some very strange ideas

[Paul_E]

How does iron palm fit into the liu he tang land system? The practioners here mentioned that power comes from the dantien, so does iron give you that little extra topping or is it a major part of the applications?

[shirkers1]

YZDZ I'm from Wong Hon Fun lineage, HK 7*.... The master Hu seminar was held at my teachers school in akron this past weekend. I can tell you first hand that what you see performed in the forms is something completely different than applied fighting tactics. Master Hu did a great job at showing the difference between the two. The fighting applications were close in the way we think although we apply them with different body energy. So we could see what master hu was getting at... With that said a lot of the HK 7 * sets what you are seeing is pretty straight forward and the average person can pick up on at least one of the apps. But the liu sets it's pretty hidden if you don't train in that style... and it seems like a lot of the individual movements have multiple apps from the feet to the arms. So if you want to pick it up from the vid get on it chief.. but sorry about your luck if you think you're going to even scrape the surface of what is actually there.

I agree with jake and I think you have no clue what liuhe is, but if you keep it up I have a feeling you will find out soon enough. By the way different styles have different ways of power generation.... Ours comes from our footwork, through the whole body. Hey jake let me know when this cat comes to work out with you, I'd like to drive out and partake in the viewing!

I know jake would love to have you come work out, learn, whatever with him. He's a great guy and can get his point across in more than one way so you won't be wasting your time. But I tell you what, you won't be wasting your time or money if you attend a master hu seminar period..... "who's master hu"? is the question we were asking ourselves before the seminar "we found master hu"..... is what we were saying after, and he IS the real deal..


PAUL E From what I saw at the seminar, master hu loves open hand strikes so I would say hell yes iron palm would make a big difference.

[Shadowboxer]

Mark,

Would you be able/willing to host some clips of Master Hu? This seems to be the easiest solution. I'm working on clips already so it won't take long to get them up. Let me know what you think.

Chad