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Thread: Emin Boztepe vs William Cheung?

  1. #16
    Wongsifu Guest
    I tottaly agree with jojutsu on this one, u know what really made me laugh was when i went to a will cheung seminar a while after this incident in cyprus he was teaching us the hidden ground fighting techniques of wing chungs advanced levels.

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Anyhow dont judge kung fu by what wing chun is like.

    It like looking at the beach and saying oh the pacific or atlantic is tiny ....

    Wing chun is one of the much poorer styles of kung fu

  2. #17
    Sihing73 Guest
    jojitsu27,

    I originally shared your point of view, then I had the opportunity to review an unedited copy of the tape. It does indeed look like Emin "pounds" WC however, after loking at all of the facts I would ask why WC was not injured, he did not even get anything more than a slight bruise if I recall correctly. Also, if you know Emin ask him about his arm [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    I said the fight was inconclusive and I stand by that statement. Both sides have pointed out various things in the tapes to prove their side of the story and that they won. In my opinion, if I were able to so dominate my opponent, as Emins claims, he would be wearning quite a bit more evidence of that fact.

    I do not wish to be drawn into a political mire so I will not say anymore. If you feel the fight proved your opinion then good for you. I wish you well.

    BTW, the sound is terrible so I could hardly be relying on that to help me out [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I will admit to being tired, I am tired right now, having gone to see one of my former students play in a rock band late last night [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] Still, tired or not the fight, IMO, was inclonclusive. NEITHER SIDE was able to prove superiority or victory. No one was injured and WC was able to complete the seminar, does'nt sound like much of a pounding to me. At the start of this I was actually proud of Emin and what he had done. I bought into the whole bull****. After having a chance to look a bit further I changed my opinion.

    Peace,

    Dave

  3. #18
    loki Guest
    I saw a very bad clip of the 'fight'. But what surprises me even more is that neither one even used their Wing Chun the little bit of time that they were on their feet. Granted, they obviously had no clue what to do on the ground but they should have at least been using their style while they were standing up. Looks as if they didn't even try.

  4. #19
    sunkuen Guest

    the clips

    does anybody know of a site that might have this clip posted online. thanx

  5. #20
    joy chaudhuri Guest

    jojutsu sez

    "You Kung Fu guys out there that don't think you need ground fighting knowledge take this story to heart before you end up embarassed like poor Will Cheung"
    ------------------------------------------
    Nonsense. If you generalize about wing chun,
    structure, stability and motion based on that
    so called fight- you demonstrate your fundamental
    ignorance of good wing chun. In any serious investigation of a subject you first have to know something about sampling.The continuum of the wing chun world is very diverse, bumpy and uneven and that event in germany, the (pre and post) challenges and the film(s) disgrace the wing chun world. I dont care to or intend to get into the Cheung/Leung rivalries of the past.It is a sideshow- in understanding the art.But the bjj pitch is tiresome and boring. There isnt and has not been good wing chun in Tulsa for jojutsu's comparison. :

  6. #21
    fmann Guest
    I'm surprised that no groundfighting techniques were executed because Emin supposedly came from a Turkish wrestling-style background.

    As for "secret training" and any "secret techniques" given, Emin has said that those rumors and stuff were untrue -- he entered the challenge basically doing what he normally did back then.

  7. #22
    tnwingtsun Guest
    >He was either very very very.......very very tired when he watched that fight or he is blind and was relying on the sound<


    Good call Sihing,I'm glad you don't take sides.

    BTW,his arm works fine ;)

  8. #23
    Sihing73 Guest

    I Hope So

    Hi TN,

    I am sure his arm works well, I would hate to think he has continued on to become one of the most sought after trainers if he had any trouble with using one of his arms. Still, ask him if it hurt any after the incident ;).

    I still say this whole affair was an embarrasment and accomplished nothing. It is sad that all these years later we still have those who would continue to keep members of both lineages apart by keeping this going. I feel, it is time to move on.

    This incident reminds me of the Bruce Lee/Wong Jack Man(sp?) fight. Depending on who you talk to you will hear that each person thoroughly defeated the other one. Both sides claimed victory and many years later some still dredge it up to prove a point, or attempt to.

    I really do try not to take sides. Firstly because I was not there. Secondly because I have or had ties to some of the people there from Leung Tings organization, Klaus Hennrich was present with Emin and he trained me in Germany. Thirdly because I personally have my own feelings about Emin whihc have nothing to do with his fighting ability so I am probably biased. Lastly because it still accomplished, IMHO, NOTHING!!!

    BTW: I am still feeling kind of tired :D

    Peace,

    Dave

  9. #24
    sunkuen Guest
    Actually Dave i don't really care who won the fight I'm just curious to have a peek!!! Again, can anybody here tell me where i can find the clip online?

  10. #25
    Super-Fist Guest
    Yeah. Where can those of us who didn't see the "fight" go just to take a look at it? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

  11. #26
    Sihing73 Guest

    Online=not

    Hello,

    Sorry but I have no information about where one may go online to view a clip of this incident. I used to have a copy along with some photos but they have grown legs and walked some time ago. I know you can view the "fight" on one of Leung Tings video tapes, I think it was Dynamic Wing Tsun, however, I believe that versions may be somewhat edited.

    All in all you are not missing much. The entire affair lasted something like 30-45 seconds from initial attack to the ground and finishing.

    If anyone knows where to view it online they have not said where.

    Peace,

    Dave

  12. #27
    tiger_1 Guest

    hi there

    my friends that many talking baout one bad fight ... plz so many fine themes about wing chun and chi sao.... - just friendly tiger_1 (show to me non ordunary wingchunger im can show you a progres and good road) ;)

    /

  13. #28
    Geza Guest
    http://www.freeweb.hu/fight/
    It's a very bad quality.

  14. #29
    anerlich Guest

    Correction re: Draheim/Parlati

    Just a correction to S73's statements re Draheim/Parlati.

    The fight was not between Andrew Draheim and Victor Parlati, but Andrew Draheim and Keith Mazza. The fight did not happen a short time after the Cologne incident (1986), but about ten years later.

    Draheim posted many long, provocative tracts ridiculing Cheung and TWC on rec.m-a. A flame war of epic proportions ensued. Draheim was extremely provocative, posting pictures of the Cheung/Boztepe fight/fiasco on his website, even to the point of moving his training premises into the same building as TWC instructor Victor Parlati. Parlati claimed to have met Draheim over a beer to try and sort the whole thing out, and begged off a challenge match due to having undergone recent surgery. While Draheim was flaming and being flamed in return by a cast of 1000s including myself, he accepted a challenge from Keith Mazza. Parlati and some other guy turned up at Draheim's premises to say they wanted to fight there and then, Draheim said he only wanted to fight Mazza, after which Mazza was brought into the room and a "fight" commenced. Both sides claimed victory, but only Draheim went to the emergency room afterwards. Both sued each other, both withdrew charges and both were evicted from their building by an annoyed landlord.

    While the conduct of Cheung, Boztepe, Draheim, Parlati and Mazza in these ignominious incidents brands each as a arrogant, immature moron, Draheim deserves special executive moron status for his prodigous and unequalled output of self delusional bull**** on rec.m-a. He was an embarassment to his seniors and to WC in general.

    While the statements of the BJJ and MMA crowds have to be taken with a grain of salt, at least their ascendency has made it more difficult to make insulting or grandious statements about MA styles without there being a real possibility of people being prepared to take the claimant up on it.

  15. #30
    mun hung Guest
    "Draheim deserves special executive moron status for his prodigous and unequalled output of self delusional bull**** on rec.m-a."

    LOL!

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