Tao

[PangQuan]

Hello. I have been a follower of Taoist phylosophies for over 5 years now. I have just recently began to read the book titled Chronicles of Tao (Deng Ming-Dao). I am half way through this piece, and I find it very interesting. Certainly there are occurances within this work that are questionable, but which I have left up to meditational hallucinations, or mere flamboyancy for reasons of higher levels of distribution. I never the less find the angles of Tao, that are described, to be of great understanding. I have had self realizations from some of the writings and, with that alone, I find the gentleman in question (Sifu Kwan) to be a very intriguing individual. I have been studying Gung Fu for a while now, and am in the process of preparing my body for travel. At which point I wish to seek knowledge from a Taoist master. I am begining my search now for individuals in which I may need to travel to, in order to further my understanding of the truth. I have found information pertaining to Master Kwan Saihung, stating that he was born in 1920, this being correct he would be quite an elderly man. I have also found information stating that his name is not even Kwan Saihung, and that he was actually born in 1947. I have found much speculation and questioning individuals within my searches. I keep myself open to either spectrum. The reason I am writing is to question whether anyone may have any current information on Master Saihung. I would greatly appreciate any information one would be able to pass on to me, as I truly wish to locate a true Taoist master before my time to travel is upon me. Granted I have several years ahead in my physical studies before I am ready for a more permanent relocation, but I am most deffinately willing to travel to meet an individual who may meet the criteria I am looking for. This message is not strictly isolated to the situation of Master Saihung, but is extended to the knowledge one might have on a master who would be a beneficial role in the study of Taoism, by means of person to person transference of knowledge and wisdom.

For the sake of keeping this serious, I do not want any personal attacks on individuals in question, nor on those that my be brought up within this thread. Information you may have or leads that are possible to follow regarding this subject are most welcome.

Many thanks in advance,

edit: I began my studies of martial arts in order to more intricately experience other aspects of Tao. I am not seeking a martial arts instructor. Merely a Taoist master whom I may speak with.

[Taomonkey]

Dr. Maoshing Ni is the son of Hua-Ching Ni, some of the best books have been written by this family, and they operate a traditional Chinese medicine university in California, do some research and you will find them.

[PangQuan]

Thank you. I will do just that.

[spiraler]

whatup pangquan, so youre interested in the tao? so am i. are you familiar with the i ching? also, you might be interested in ba gua as a martial art since they incorporate the tao and the i ching into their martial system of tactics.strange yet profound revelations come with the undrestanding of the tao dont they?

[PangQuan]

Hey there spiraler, I dont know any ba gua teachers in my area. I do own a few copies of the I Ching, my favorite translation is done by Thomas Cleary (as I cant read chinese). I use it frequently for phylosophical consultaion, using the coin method to build my trigrams and hexagrams. I realized that sinse I have found Tao, my understanding of life grows each day with contemplation of truth through the duality of the universe. I plan to eventually visit Taishan for my first pilgrimage, and then possible Huashan. It is very difficult to find anyone else around me with my enthusiasm for the Taoist way. Through this I find part of my destiny lies in travel, although I find it tempting to except the fate of staying put. Tricky bugger that fate thing is. Im pretty sure my destiny will eventually overcome my fate though. I realize that I need to look into the local Chinese Language Center to begin learning Mandarin. Come to think of it, Ill do that while im here at work today. Thanks for the spark spiraler.

[7 star Method]

PangQuan,

What exactly are you looking for? Are you interested in learning Taoism or the Taoist traditions?
You speak of fate as if you were a buddhist, I would like to know if you do not mind, what brings you to Taoism?
I would be very cautious about Kwan SaiHung. The Taoist academia has found him to be a fraud. Some may not care, but if you are searching to learn Taoism, then you should be careful with learning from him. I have heard his Chi Kung ain't half bad, so maybe if you study from him you can go that route.
Thomas Cleary has translated many books and I truly thank him for that, but his books all have Buddhist undertones as well as his own. Nothing is wrong with that, but if you are interested in Taoism his books are interesting but not the way to go if there is something else - take them with a grain of salt.
Sorry if I seem to be a downer. If you really want to learn Taoism you should know what Taoists feel about these two interesting authors.

[spiraler]

what up pangquan,

may you have fortune in your search for wisdom. spiraler

[7 star Method]

I am sorry that I have disrespected or offended any of you.
I am very new and have actually had some spare time lately and thought it would be fun to spend some time on a martial arts board.

Spiraler, I do not ever remember disrespecting you or leaving a snide remark, but if I have can you please leave an example and please accept my apology. No, I do not sign in as Seven Star - I believe there is another person here with this name.

I am not a master of anything, just a student of the Tao and a teacher of Kungfu.

[spiraler]

my most humble and utmost apologies 7 star method. it seems i have confused you with another poster. i just want to say that you have not disrespected me and im sorry for this misunderstanding. i have been a fool.
spiraler.

[PangQuan]

Welcome 7 star method

What brings me to Taoism? Well thats a pretty long story. Lets just say that living a life of impurity and violence was not good for me. Several years ago, I was introduced to taoism by a friend, through lao tzu. From there I began to purchase any book I could find regarding taoism. I generally like to translations done by chinese authors, using british english to translate to. I use Thomas Cleary's I Ching due to the acuracy i find in the actual translations into standard English, of the trigrams/hexagrams. He has a good understanding of eastern languages. (would you possibly suggest a better english version for consultation?) That and Sun Tzu are the only translations I have kept of his. I have never studied buddhism to any extent. Though what I have read is intriguing. I am quite wary of Kwan Saihung, I have not been able to find any solid info on the man. All my leads become dead ends, well except the phone number I have to reach one of his pupils. So far my goal is to travel to first Taishan and the Huashan, I am hoping to find an actual taoist master to study under first. In the case that I do not, hopefully my pilgimage will bear fruit. It is very difficult to find an actual taoist master, especially in the states. So far all suggestions and leads, end up to be people trying to make money off of taoist methods, and medicines. And no one I have found yet excepts students for Taoist purposes. Any way you may be able to help me would be most appreciative. How long have you been following the way? Who if any were and or are your masters?

[PangQuan]

7 Star Method

I have been doing some research on Lie Feng Taoren. He seems like someone I may want to meet. I have time off in July this year. I will make arrangements to travel to California to meet him. Unfortunately I must work to pay for my Kung Fu lessons. here is where I learn my Kung Fu www.ckfa-kungfu.com

My Sifu is quite skilled, and is very accomplished martial artist. He has mastered several Chinese styles, as well as Karate, and Judo. He is a gem that seems to not want any fame. This I respect. His morality and humanity are of great alignment, and it is for this reason I study from him.

In poking around the internet finding information on Lie Feng Taoren, there are several places that are stated as his current location. May I assume that the information located on The Black Lotus Society web site is correct? Have you met him, if so what is your personal impression? As well, do you have any current contact information for Master Lie Feng Taoren? Such as email, school #, or a P.O. Box, for mail purposes.

Thanks

[7 star Method]

Spiraler,
No problem, I never felt insulted - just confused - lol

PangQuan,
Seems that you have a very good teacher. Maybe if you stick around you may find sanctuary within what you know and not what you do not...

Sorry to mislead you, I am Lie Feng Taoren
For once in my life I have some spare time so I thought I could come here and learn a bit.
As for my school - it is non existent, I am currently teaching at a park and doing seminars, trying to keep it low key for right now. If you would like to get a hold of me, please feel free to e-mail, everything is current on the web site.

To answer your question in your first reply; I personally have been following the way since the day I was borne. The way is universal and not restricted to anyone or any belief. Tao and Taoism are completely different. Taoism is a particular religious belief and the Tao is Universal.
So what I gather is that you have been subjected to the translated Taoist philosophy but not Taoism?

Tao-an

[PangQuan]

Tao-an

What your intuition has gathered is correct. Thank you for the advice and clarification of terms. As I do not know anyone in my area in which I can converse on this subject with, the only understandings I have are concieved from my own personal reflection of literature and experiences. Since the only link I have to deeper clarifications of tao is literature and myself I often feel that I am missing a great amount of understanding, as the transference of wisdom from a master seems to be needed. My sifu is buddhist so I do not approach this subject with him. He was raised in a temple and was eventually a monk before leaving the monastic life. There is a small language barrier, but I do take every chance I get to listen to his words and form an understanding to the best of my abilities.

I greatly appreciate the opportunity to be humbled within my ignorance of the way by you. It seems that you have cultivated a deep understanding of life and the workings of duality in your time.

The warnings of Kwan Saihung from you have validated the impression I have recieved from others. Thanks.

I will still have the time off come July, if possible and your schedule permits, would it be rude of me to request an opportunity to meet with you, or perhaps participate in one of your classes?

This forum truly has been my last resort in locating someone more affiliated with understanding of Tao.

[7 star Method]

Pang Quan,

Of course, your visit would honor me, Anyone is welcome to visit, I will make you some great tea and we will have the opportunity to talk.

Tao-an is a Taoist term for a blessing - or Tao peace if you will.

Tao-an

[PangQuan]

7 star Method

This is most appreciated. After finding time to contemplate your advice further, I feel that I understand what you mean by "sticking around".

Tao-an is a Taoist term for a blessing - or Tao peace if you will.

my ignorance is amusing.

I will contact you in the future, via email through your profile here, regarding July. I have heard California is expensive, so I will begin to save money now to pay for accomidations and so forth. I look forward to recieving my first experience in meeting with a Taoist master.

Tao-an