Tao

[frog]

Pangquan,

I think you would do well to be cautioned about the Ni family as well. The "Taoism" they teach is in fact traditional Chinese culture not Taoism; They do not claim to be initiated into a recognised religious sect as far as I know. They claim a non-religious family lineage.

Another thing is that there are a lot of unpleasant rumours that swirl around them. While it's bad form to repeat rumours, I think that it's completely fair to be sceptical of people with bad reputations.

And while their "Taoism" is what I'll call highly suspect (since I have no proof), the TCM school they run is one of the best in the US and I'm proud to be a graduate.

I also have to disagree with Taomonkey about the quality of their books.

For more info on Taoism Check out taorestore.org, but beware that almost all of the resources on their website are also frauds or just non-Taoists who actually believe that they're Taoists. TRS, the hosting organisations is completely reputable, I just think they let anybody list themselves who wants to.

Be careful and good luck on your search!

[PangQuan]

Frog,

Thank you for your advice. After doing some small research on the Ni family, I decided to end it there. All that I found was regarding business, and making money, from that point I became disinterested.

Granted I am not against spending money to have the opportunity to meet with individuals whom I would consider well worth the investment. I am just not looking to take any medical classes, or purchase goods.

Any advice for me is carefully examined and pondered. Once again thank you for your time.

[PangQuan]

Master Lie Feng Tao-ren,

One question if I may. Seeing as how my only exposure to Tao is through english translation via literature, and I have never been educated by a master regarding this nor have I had the translations related through one more understanding of Tao; would this imply that I am following a path created through my own personal ego, derived from the desire to see what I value as truth? In which case, would what I call Tao, in essence not truly be Tao. Or would my path not be futile under the pretense that Tao may be experienced through many different sources, and I am merely finding traces of something that is there?

I am constantly trying to come to terms with what I am, without any spiritual guidance. This is as clear as I am able to word this, and I thank you for taking the time to read this and, if possible, to respond.

[spiraler]

i like to stand in the blowing wind, in a quiet place, just listening to nature. i feel most connected to the tao that way. i think the tao is the beauty of existence and how nature and life around us changes, ever so subtly, yet those in tune with the tao can connect with nature on an "understanding" level "listen" to it so to speak. its so hard to put into words, all i can say is that its beautiful.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

For insightful musings, read as much as you can regarding the "Taoist Immortals".. the stories are likely embellished but offer insight into the earlier Taoist concepts.. The spontaneous and bohemian lifestyles of these "Immortals" is indicative of the original philosophical foundations of Taoist living.. i am of the opinion that Religious Taoism is somewhat contrary to the Taoist philosophy, but that is better determined by the inclinations of the individual.. The student of Tao would be well advised to research as much as possible, the Tao will reveal itself to each of us accordingly.. find your own Tao, first.. Tao is a process not an object, not to be "known", but experienced..

One of the statements of our school's mission is.. "and sanctuary for wayward Taoists".. in as much as we are ALL wayward Taoists to the degree that we abandon our true nature..

Be well..

[7 star Method]

Master Lie Feng Tao-ren,

One question if I may. Seeing as how my only exposure to Tao is through english translation via literature, and I have never been educated by a master regarding this nor have I had the translations related through one more understanding of Tao; would this imply that I am following a path created through my own personal ego, derived from the desire to see what I value as truth? In which case, would what I call Tao, in essence not truly be Tao. Or would my path not be futile under the pretense that Tao may be experienced through many different sources, and I am merely finding traces of something that is there?

I am constantly trying to come to terms with what I am, without any spiritual guidance. This is as clear as I am able to word this, and I thank you for taking the time to read this and, if possible, to respond.

It is futile to worry about the Tao. It is everywhere and in everything - good and evil, right or wrong it is still the Tao. You personally are just a small bit of the Tao, as well as an empty beer can and the beer that is in my stomach lol
The Tao is something to be learned not taught. Through certain exercises and well as cultivation you will find your answers that you may need.

Tao-an

[7 star Method]

Greetings..

For insightful musings, read as much as you can regarding the "Taoist Immortals".. the stories are likely embellished but offer insight into the earlier Taoist concepts.. The spontaneous and bohemian lifestyles of these "Immortals" is indicative of the original philosophical foundations of Taoist living.. i am of the opinion that Religious Taoism is somewhat contrary to the Taoist philosophy, but that is better determined by the inclinations of the individual.. The student of Tao would be well advised to research as much as possible, the Tao will reveal itself to each of us accordingly.. find your own Tao, first.. Tao is a process not an object, not to be "known", but experienced..

One of the statements of our school's mission is.. "and sanctuary for wayward Taoists".. in as much as we are ALL wayward Taoists to the degree that we abandon our true nature..

Be well..

Tai Chi Bob,

However much I may like your insight I must say, and with no disrespect this is what I have lost all patience with.
I agree that the student should read all that they can on Toaism, but most of your findings will be translated new age junk, but there are treasures here and there.
ai Chi Bob, I would like to know. What are the earlier taoist concepts? I myself would like to know how the "earlier" Taoists were before Taoism. This would be greatly insightful. - LOL
Taoism is Taoism, it is nothing else. Philosophical Taoism is still Taoism.
Westerners have *******ized our religion to the point of now it is just plane insulting through miss understanding of the truth. Believing in translated books and Taoist ideals that have absolutely nothing to do with the original author was trying to express. Immortals are free, well because they were immortal. Before their free life style they had to work hard a dedicate themselves to a specific system in order to get to the point of Immortality. Most immortals are still hard at work, trying to get to the next level of cultivation in order to unite with the Tao.

The only personal Tao - lol is the cultivation of "Te". Te is the motion or life of the Tao.
Oh well, enough of this, sorry for the rant.

Tao-an

[Metal Mantis]

Ni Hau,
One of my favorite authors on the subject of Taoism is Alan Watts... He gives it that light hearted feeling of nonsense that trying to put such things into words deserves.. "Cloud Hidden, Whereabouts Unknown" is probably my favorite, followed closely by "Nature Man and Woman" and the "The Wisdom of Insecurity for an Age of Anxiety" all entertaining easy reads...
Recently I was given a book by Chogyam Trungpa, a Nepalize man with all the spiritual credentials needed, and enough sense to not "need" them.. I just finished "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" by him and was quite taken back... Statred another "The Myth of Freedom"...... Ironically I have yet to finish this one... I suddenly felt quite relaxed with the whole of things.....
Just my thoughts... I hightly reccomend either of these idividuals insights as they have given me some assistance on the path to my In(ner) Lightenment...... Hope all is well, Peace................... J

[PangQuan]

It is futile to worry about the Tao. It is everywhere and in everything - good and evil, right or wrong it is still the Tao. You personally are just a small bit of the Tao, as well as an empty beer can and the beer that is in my stomach lol
The Tao is something to be learned not taught. Through certain exercises and well as cultivation you will find your answers that you may need.

Tao-an

Master Lie Feng Tao-ren,

This resonates with your earlier advice of staying put. I feel that I am understanding. This is begining to make much sense to me. Where am I able to learn how to practice these exersizes you mention. Again I thank you for your consultation.

I have recently been pondering the realization of the self. I find it ironic, that in a way I dont even exist. Along the lines that I am just the outcome of the spirit combining with the elements. It seems to me that "I" am just one possible presence within this reality "I" now experience. This reality of mass and ego of the self is false, and "I" being an offshoot of this blending of substances am also false. With your explanation that I am just one piece of Tao, then you are as nonexistant as I. And in fact we are actually the same essence, drawn of the same origin. This in turn leaves me with a conclusion. Is it possible for me to connect with this origin while I still am in this stage of reality? And if so, when this is done, do I seemingly become nonexistant in the whole of eternity? And at the time of death, do I leave this plain only to enter into a different stage of illusion?

I kind of went out there for a second, but I had to write that down while I was thinking of it.

[spiraler]

i would say through time and meditation on these thoughts, you will be able to seperate truth from reality. just never let yourself be taken over by the unknown. venture cautiosly, enlightenment can be dangerous. especially to your mental well being. also try to strengthen your body with taoist exercises. strong body, strong mind.

[PangQuan]

Spiraler,

Thats just it, I dont know any Taoist exersizes, no one to teach me. I do know Shaolin Buddhist exersizes, and do those everyday for martial arts practice. But I have never been trained in meditation postures or methods. Is there a good video that can aid me in this?

[spiraler]

look up circle walking, a taoist form of moving meditation. pangquan, do you know how to sink your mind and chi into your dantien? p.s. you dont need a teacher for everything, only the really advanced stuff. so far, i taught myself.

[PangQuan]

So far all I know is external properties of exersize. I have not been shown any breathing methods. I have read about many different types. I just dont know which kind is right for me. I continually am trying to keep my breath regulated, but I dont think I have reached the point where it is automatic, because when I sparr I find myself sometimes taking shorter breaths than I should. I know I should be breathing slowly, evenly and deep in through the nose, using the muscles in my lower abdomen to draw the diaphram and bringing in more air. Then I release the air in a relaxed state out through my nose, as though I am sleeping. This does help, I focus on this breathing while I run also, and can now run several miles before I must open my mouth. But if one would be able to elaborate on how I would sink my chi and mind into my dantien this would be most awsome.

[spiraler]

okay,
im going to attempt to try to explain one method of finding your chi, this method worked for me about six months ago..... Okay, first i suggest you find a nice quiet place that gives you a sense of well being and power. then drop into a horse stance, breathe very deeply with one hundred and ten percent of your lungs, inhale so much that your whole torso expands, really inhale with all you have and at the same time try to relax the leg muscles in use which are probably beginning to burn. this principle of relaxation is VERY important, since this is your first time expect this to be very difficult and feelings of giving up are natural, but stay strong, this also is VERY important. after a decent amount of time(1 to 2 mins beginner 4 - 5 mins adv) switch to bow stance by placing your left leg behind your right, placing most of your weight on your front leg,(remember not to bend the knee past the toes and sink with the hips) continue to breathe deeply expanding your lung capacity to its fullest an exhaling,(on the inhale relax, on the exhale also relax but Imagine pushing out tension)after your custom set time to hold that position(pref 1- 2 mins) switch to reversebow by placing your weight on your back leg and straightening your front leg, while bending the back leg(dont sink knee past toe)hold this position and remember to breathe into the burn while relaxing the muscles that are burning and exhale very slowly as if reeling silk and imagine pushing out the tension.the next position is cat stance, do this by simply pulling the front leg closer and stand on the toe of this foot(if my descriptions are confusing these names are universal you can always look them up) hold this position while BREATHING IN AND RELAXING, THEN BREATHING OUT VERY SLOWLY, like silk reeling. it might help also to visualise in your minds eye that you are pushing outwards with your hands from your navel area on the exhale.the next stance is horse, step with your right leg to the right to form horse stance or just simply get into horse stance, i could remind you about how important breathing is again but for the sake of quicknes i wont be too repetitive, just remember if you do not breathe this way you are wasting time. after this horse stance, assume cat stance with your weight on your right leg, hold for as long as you can, breathe, and then switch to twist stance, slide your left foot back from cat stance so that the knee of your left leg is under the knee of your right leg, remember to sink and relax, the next pos. is another horse, assume by pivoting to your left from twist stance, remember to sink relax and breathe into the pain while relaxing the muscles in use also there is no tension in the body. from here switch to twist again by sliding your left leg forward so that your right knee is under your left knee, sink breathe and relax. from here pivot to the right to form horse stance once more, hold breathe relax.from here slide your right foot next to your left foot and drop into a low kneeling stance(THIS ONE IS HARD AND IN THE BEGINNING I COULD ONLY HOLD THIS ONE FOR LIKE 5 SECONDS IT GETS EASIER THOUGH) IN THIS KNEELING STANCE THE MAJORITY OF THE WEIGHT IS ON YOUR RIGHT FOOT.
from this kneeling stance pivot to your left and place weight on your left foot. hold breathe and relax, from here pivot to your right on the ball of your foot and step into another horse stance, hold breathe and relax. from here pivot to your left while still on the same spot and sink into twist stance. h, b, r, from here pivot to your right and twist back into horse stance. shift weight onto right leg and form the right reverse bow and arrow stance,h,b,r, next switch to forward bow with weight on left leg.hbr, from here step back with left foot to form the last horse stance. YOUR DONE... i did this routine for one week, and on the third day i felt the sensation of chi sinking from my upper shoulder armpit area down to my lower stomach, but be careful, once you feel this phenomena of bio feedback, remember it and do not lose it, as you can do so very easily, keep up practice and soon you wont need to get into horse to feel your chi, at will you will be able to sink your mind and chi to the dantien, and only then will you be able to begin to benefit from the many uses of chi. please feel free to ask questions. p.s. i swear by this,this set is from ed parkers "secrets of chinese karate". an out of print book which sells on ebay for 150.00, i got it at the library in the used books for 15 cents.

[PangQuan]

Spiraler,

Hey thanks for that routine. From my kung fu practice I am able to hold my horse for about 30 mins so I should be able to do this.

1) Ill asume that when you say h,b,r you impy hold stance, breath in and out, relaxe muscles.

2) I know all these stances from the shaolin system I study, but one thing I am confused on is the kneeling stance, is this with one foot on the ground and one knee on the ground as in a classical kneeling fashion or would I do this classical style kneeling yet keep my knee off of the ground while keeping only the ball of my rear foot on the ground? If you have a link to a picture of a proper stance this would help.

3) also for twisting stance, I think we call this sitting stance in my school. Here is a link to a pic of what I am picturing in my head. http://alexng.net/fsuwushu/reference/seated2.jpg

4) also, the reverse bow, is this similar to a cat stance except you let some weight stay on the front foot while letting it keep flat to the ground? as in I just shift my weight back from regular bow. like say do I keep it 80/20 or so?

I think thats all the questions I have so far, Im going to print this out while Im at work and start trying this when I go home.