Creatine

[IronFist]

If creatine prevented you from sweating I would use it 365 days a year.

All the food I have to eat to maintain my weight, much less gain any weight, makes me a big sweaty mess. If there was a way to prevent that I would be all over it.

[mickey]

Thanks for the commercial break IronFist.

Much needed.

mickey

[Mo Lung]

A few years ago there were a few wrestlers who died from dehydration and heatstroke. Creatine was implicated. I have been looking for the article for you but the person at this site makes mention of it:

http://www.nucare.com/noname4.html

Dude, have you actually read this article you linked? Here, I'll snip a few quotes from it for you:

Creatine Supplement Use Not New

While creatine is “new” to many here in the U.S., it is not “new” to the rest of the world. The Russians and other Eastern Block countries have used creatine as a sport supplement for at least twenty years. Perhaps this helps explain why the Eastern Block countries beat the West so badly for many years in the Olympics. Recently, I spoke to a Russian Sports scientist who candidly told me that the Russians never found any injurious effects while using creatine.

Creatine Use In the United States

In the West creatine has been manufactured for about nine years. Creatine was first used by successfully in the West in the 1992 Olympics. As creatine began to be readily available in the United States many bodybuilders began taking creatine in massive amounts. Thinking that if a little is good, more must be better they took twenty, forty, and even sixty grams of powder a day, all without injurious effect on their health. If creatine were dangerous, these human “guinea pigs” would have clearly demonstrated these effects over the past nine years.

On the deaths of the wrestlers:

This is what I found. Only one of the three wrestlers had ever used creatine. That wrestler stopped using creatine several weeks before his death. By the time of his death creatine his muscle creatine levels would have returned back to normal levels and therefore creatine could not be implicated in his death. Two of the three died of severe dehydration and heat injury. The third probably died of an undiagnosed heart problem. In conclusion I could find no relationship between creatine supplementation and these wrestlers deaths. Since then, more than three years later, I have found no reason to change my mind. No local, state or U.S. government report has implicated creatine in any of the deaths.

The lesson we should learn from these deaths is that using severe dehydration to pull weight not only severely limits wrestling performance but can be extremely dangerous. It killed not only these wrestlers, but may have killed others who did not gain media attention. In the course of my investigation, I learned from wrestling insiders of many other “near death experiences” from dehydration that required medical resuscitation.

Physicians Using Creatine Have Found No Creatine Toxicity

And here's a non-biased opinion:

The American College of Sports Medicine hosted a roundtable discussion by several top scientists interested in creatine. They reported in their abstract that “there is no definitive evidence that creatine supplementation causes gastrointestinal, renal, and/or muscle cramping complications.” 2

Summary

Despite all the rumor and speculation that we all have heard over the past few years, I find no credible evidence that creatine supplementation is harmful in anyway to our 1. Clin J. Sport Med., 1999, Jul. v. 9, (3), p. 167-169 2. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 2000 Mar; 32 (3): p. 706-17health. On the contrary, an ample amount of creatine is absolutely necessary for healthy muscle and other cellular function.

Not really the best link you could have made to support your assumptions.

Check this out. Here is someone who is saying the same thing that I am saying:

http://www.personalhealthzone.com/he...e_effects.html

mickey

And this linked has a couple of mentions all qualified with "may" and "possibly", etc. with no data at all to back up the claims. You're right - they are saying exactly what you are saying: Assumptions without any evidence.

I'm tired of this discussion. You hold your views zealously and that's your prerogative. I'm not going to try to change your mind and you have no chance of changing mine, so let's just agree to disagree, ok?

As for anyone else that wants to know about creatine, I'm sure this thread will tell them everything they need to know!

[mickey]

Hello Mo Lung,

I posted those links to see how you would view it. Some people take things as is; others look beyond what is being said.

The wrestlers dying form dehydration and heat injury-- that is a possible complication from taking creatine. The study completely divorces the complications from the intake of creatine, just as you have stated yourself in so many words. Now if all that they were saying was true, there would be absolutely NO NEED to supplement extra water because of creatine because there is no risk of dehydration or heat injury (hyperthermia). NO RISK AT ALL. Part of the reason you do not see that is because you do not have a partial handle on how the body works; specifically, when it comes to its need for water. I knew you would jump on that article and it is not funny. It is sad. One should always consider the motivation of any study as well as who is financing it. And even if it is the best conducted study in the world, it should not take the place of your own thinking. If anything, it should facillitate it.

If anything, Mo Lung, I have learned that you are a follower. You have no initiative to interact with things with your knowledge base. You want it done for you. If steroids came out on the market for the first time today, you would wait for a study to say that the stuff was dangerous. Until then, you would have nothing to say about it pro or con.

One thing that I did notice was that you did not try to reduce the link that pretty much echoed what I was saying all along to some kind of psychological rambling. Gee, I wonder why. Oh Yes, oh yes. I see why now. The information was referenced. You would have to run away from this thread now. Wear your best shoes.

Take Care,

mickey

P.S.:

I guess I should wait for the study that confirms that dehydration, left unchecked, can develop into hyperthermia. And I should wait for the other study that confirms that hyperthermia can be fatal.

[Mo Lung]

If anything, Mo Lung, I have learned that you are a follower. You have no initiative to interact with things with your knowledge base. You want it done for you.

Whatever you think, mickey. I'm the one that's actually used creatine to see firsthand what happens. You didn't.

I'm the one that wants to verify my own conclusions with what other people, professionals with better knowledge and experience than me, have to say. You don't.

I'm prepared to learn from the experience of myself and others. You're not. You just stick to your preconceived assumptions in the face of all other evidence.

I think it's quite clear where we both stand on this subject and anyone else can draw their own conclusions. I won't be posting again on this thread. It's pointless.

[IronFist]

Just be careful of dehydration anyway.

You're certaintly not immune to dehydration if you're not using creatine.

[mickey]

Gosh,

I approach things with a preconceived notion? I took the time to read about this product when it first hit the market. I also thought it was safe for a short moment.

Peace Brother Mo Lung. Nice talking with you.

IronFist,

You are starting to sound like a moderator. You can head the training forum. You are here 72/7.

mickey

[IronFist]

You are starting to sound like a moderator. You can head the training forum. You are here 72/7.

mickey

Man, I could get a lot done if I had a 72/7 week!

Would you prefer I go back to the "no, you're wrong, idiot!" type of posts?

[mickey]

IronFist,

If you did that, you would definitely have to become a moderator. I'd be the first to vote for you.

mickey

[IronFist]

Wrong, idiot!

GOSH!

[mickey]

Ouchhhh!

Everyone...


He's Baaaaaaaaack.


Run for cover.

Take Care,

mickey