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Thread: Wooden Dummy

  1. #151
    all the techniques allow an ability to attack a flank..example is right tan , left jum , left bong/vu-strike , all feed the ability to attack the guys right side...in any sequence...change sides and the right tan is the now the right jum....

    tan is a training position for a double action strike, as is jum sao ...
    tan uses the outside leading edge with elbows low and in to ensure the correct deflection angles along the arm as it leaves this position to STRIKE and recovers back to elbows in to repeat endlessly.... If done correctly no 'force' can stop it except an equal counter line or a grab [ergo bil gee release moves].
    Jum [side-palm makes the elbow turn inwards] uses the inside of the forearm , by keeping the elbows in and low , so the strike deflects force inwards , relative to our elbow/flank position....
    All the techniques work to fight a flanked weakened side...

    bongs move force left or right to clear for either arm capable of being a tan or jum in a nano second of response naturally to the line of force presented...thats why all the chi-sao for one...

    each arm is tan/jum depending on the side you fight , and never leaves the centerline , because they are striking deflections. The brain signals the appropriate corrections to make the jum [inside] strike, reface and become a tan[ outside] strike.

    It looks like a chain punch when used , not tan , jum, tan , jum etc... the elbow control trained from SLT up, is this thinking . To deliver a simple strike with either arm, so it works like 2...

    example is instead of using a right hand pak sao to trap an arm and then strike over with a left strike lifting the elbow up and over to reach...
    We use either arms forearms to align to the target , not the attackers arm...keeping the alignment we develop an invisible line of engagement IF its X'ed by another line of force....if the arm meets the other in a rotation strike attack, either arm will be able to act as the controlling AND striking arm in one beat. UNTHINKING without arm chasing lead actions , taking your ability to overwhelm , back to being equal arm for arm responses or worse 2 for one ...constantly , from trap to over trapping etc....
    IF that is interrupted and the lead arm is stopped it becomes a jut, etc..to feed the rear hand ...chi-sao instills the appropriate response , unthinking .

    The common idea being arm alignment drills to develop the twofold strike/deflect actions in both the tan strike and jum strikes...

    on the dummy we train both extended to simply ensure the ability to strike with either and have correct alignment , not application I block your arm with one arm and then do a low rib strike with my other , over ...next move
    schools that do this thinking usually fall aprt when sparring and do a pak sao kick boxing , bong in air elbows up trying to do reaching 'tags' to say "I got you".... reality is the 'tag' wouldn't drop or stop a fly ...a lot rely on the lop-chop [ chop having the elbow WAY up ] , because they dont know how to control or attack without grabbing themselves...grabbing is frowned on as the main response , when a jut allows attacking on the line ...
    the tan , low gaun , tan, huen sao , jum sao ...are strike, deflect, strike , deflect , strike.
    practice lateral attacking to, facing [chu-ying] with both strikes , again not to turn an 'attack the dummy' but imaging keeping going beyond the dummy using either strike
    in rotation coupled with the attack line clearing, using man sao actions for the rear attack hand vu-sao


    vu-sao is your best friend always free to attack..it is part of the thinking to not tie your own arms up and be unable to have a free vu-sao... no free vu-sao , bad .... another thing we do in chi-sao is pressure test to make a mistake of this ....not to fight each other like your opponent is going to do vusao ...
    Last edited by k gledhill; 12-21-2008 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #152

    Wooden Dummy Info

    Hello im after a Wooden Dummy. I know there are two types. The Dummy with Parallel arms, and arms that are off set. I remember David Peterson (WSL Lineage) saying the arms should always be parallel. However I find it very difficult to find a dummy on the net anywhere with exact parallel arms. I have heard Koo Sang and Buick Yip Dummies are the best but even they have slightly offset arms? There is other dummies with offset arms but more offset than the ones made by Koo Sang or Buick Yip. If anyone can explain to me what the difference is and where to get a good one from. I would really appreciate it. Im also after a Dummy that can be mounted but removable.

    Any knowledge and recommendations will help.

    Thanks for your time

    Regards

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by straightblast46 View Post
    Hello im after a Wooden Dummy. I know there are two types. The Dummy with Parallel arms, and arms that are off set. I remember David Peterson (WSL Lineage) saying the arms should always be parallel. However I find it very difficult to find a dummy on the net anywhere with exact parallel arms. I have heard Koo Sang and Buick Yip Dummies are the best but even they have slightly offset arms? There is other dummies with offset arms but more offset than the ones made by Koo Sang or Buick Yip. If anyone can explain to me what the difference is and where to get a good one from. I would really appreciate it. Im also after a Dummy that can be mounted but removable.

    Any knowledge and recommendations will help.

    Thanks for your time

    Regards
    The tangs (I just found out that they are called tenons), in the top two arms are offset. The way the arms are inserted into the trunk determine if they are level or offset
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOpn9iIYpjI
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by straightblast46 View Post
    Hello im after a Wooden Dummy. I know there are two types. The Dummy with Parallel arms, and arms that are off set. I remember David Peterson (WSL Lineage) saying the arms should always be parallel.
    If you don't mind me asking, what did your own Sifu say about the top arms alignment?
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Redmond View Post
    The tangs (I just found out that they are called tenons), in the top two arms are offset. The way the arms are inserted into the trunk determine if they are level or offset
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOpn9iIYpjI
    Yes and No. It depends who's making/selling the dummy.

    Some manufacturers only sell dummies with offset arms where there are no differences between the arms used for the top or bottom, all arms have the body insert directly centered on the arm. Some of those manufacturers offer level arms as option when ordering such as www.immortalusa.com

    OP,
    I bought a level-armed dummy from www.woodendummy.net and I'm very happy with it.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almost A Ghost View Post
    Yes and No. It depends who's making/selling the dummy.

    Some manufacturers only sell dummies with offset arms where there are no differences between the arms used for the top or bottom, all arms have the body insert directly centered on the arm. Some of those manufacturers offer level arms as option when ordering such as www.immortalusa.com

    OP,
    I bought a level-armed dummy from www.woodendummy.net and I'm very happy with it.
    If it's a Yip Man lineage wooden dummy then the tenons ARE offset.
    Yip Man gave the first plans for a Wooden Dummy to be made in Hong Kong to Cheung King Kong (Wm. Cheung's older brother), and Wm. Cheung.
    http://web.archive.org/web/200607170...oodendummy.htm
    They then gave the plans to Koo Sang who made the fist HK WC wooden dummies
    That design had offset tenons. If people are making arms without offsetting the tenons then they're not making YM dummies.
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  7. #157
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    Phil,
    You're link got cropped.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almost A Ghost View Post
    Phil,
    You're link got cropped.
    Oops, here it is: http://web.archive.org/web/200707021...oodendummy.htm
    I've known about this from other WC Sifus before I saw this Canadian website. I referred to the link because it's from a source outside of TWC circles.
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  9. #159
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    I think the problem is that people don't get that the arms are supposed to have offset tenons so that they are level when placed properly in the jong. This is the way the jong was designed.
    If you have upper arms that do not have offset tenons, it is probably more likely that the manufacturer doesn't know any better and sells middle arms, rather than offering two different styles of arms.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  10. #160
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    By correctly placing the alleged "offset tenons" properly, you can have a Jong with level arms!

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    I think the problem is that people don't get that the arms are supposed to have offset tenons so that they are level when placed properly in the jong. This is the way the jong was designed.
    If you have upper arms that do not have offset tenons, it is probably more likely that the manufacturer doesn't know any better and sells middle arms, rather than offering two different styles of arms.
    give this man a tenon er, I mean a cigar, cohiba !

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    By correctly placing the alleged "offset tenons" properly, you can have a Jong with level arms!
    alleged ?

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    alleged ?
    I'm also wondering why he wrote "alleged"
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almost A Ghost View Post
    Some manufacturers only sell dummies with offset arms where there are no differences between the arms used for the top or bottom, all arms have the body insert directly centered on the arm. Some of those manufacturers offer level arms as option when ordering such as www.immortalusa.com
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    alleged ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Redmond View Post
    I'm also wondering why he wrote "alleged"
    Alleged (offset tenons) because of the bolded text in Almost A Ghost's post.

  15. #165
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    Experiment by turning the tenons, and you, too, will have a jong like my Koo Sang one with parallel arms.

    Amazing feat of engineering?! No!

    Just a minor adjustment! I'll take pics sometime.

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