Physical appearance and your martial arts teacher

[PaiLumDreamer]

Recently I met a girl who trained eagle claw, and came from a slightly north area of Houston. When I found out she did Kung Fu, I basically bombarded her with questions. She told me a bit about her style and school, and even showed me a video.

Ok, cool. They look decent. I wont judge until I see her perform, though.

So I invite her to my school. She comes to a forms class, and does pretty decent. She lacked enthusiasm though. My Sifu said he knew her father from somewhere.

Anyway, she came back two other times...another class, and a sparring night. She fought a white sash, and our gal held her own against her. (But she beat me up, imo. lol )

Anyway, when she did fight...she would just swing her arms around. She left herself wide open a lot (she just kept punching down the middle, didnt really bring her arms back too much)...but im a nice guy, and not very aggressive at all...so I just kinda moved back and let her whack on me.

When she got hit though, she would stop, and hold her "wound". Before that she had told us to spar her like a guy...but when we barely tapped her she would get a little...whiny?

ANYWAY, im going off topic. Just trying to set the atmosphere. She was a nice girl, just high and mighty sometimes.

One day, we start talking...and she randomly brings up the fact that my instructor(s) are slightly overweight. She said she could not trust and learn from someone who looked like that.

I did a double take. "What...?"
"Yeah, if they do kung fu, they shouldnt look like that!"

Im thinking..."Wait a minute. You never saw the head instructor fight, and the teacher that did fight was beating up on your brother (who also did kung fu)...and you're telling me that you cant trust someone who is overweight?"

That just...made me feel bad. We had thought she was interested in joining, but that was an OBVIOUS NO. I personally know my instructor is a phenomenal martial artist...But shes judging by weight. When I first walked into the school for the first time, that thought never even crossed my mind.

Hey...if she would have said "Im too attached to my other school, but it was fun." or "It just didnt fit my style..." or...whatever...fine, I could understand that. But judging by appearance? Blah.

When you guys walk into a school to check it out, does the physical appearance sway your opinion of the teacher? Even if you never see them perform?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

the first thing i was gonna respond to was about her attitude in sparring. i was gonna say that you should just give it some time and either some things will start clicking for her and shell up it a level, or she wont and shel'll never ever be any better than she is right now.

then i got to the last half of your post and realized this wasn't your main point.

where the weight thing is concerned im sure plenty of people on here will bring up sammo hung. and for obvious reasons. butter bean also comes to mind. i would also note that many instructors of all styles put on a bit of weight simply because they get older. at that stage in their lives they don't train for competitions and some just don't give a ****. if they are used to moving with it, a little extra weight probably isn't going to hurt or help a player of any style in an actual confrontation to any major degree. an right fight where endurance can come into play would obviously change things.

all that said i can't help but think of one of my first instructors art east. dude probably went about 350 and didn't look a solid 350 either. to be completely honest when my friend first looked at him he thought "this tub of **** cant teach me nothing." thats almost an exact quote and when i saw him for the first time in a couple years i had similar thoughts even though i should know better. then you saw the ****er move. to this day i have never seen anyone with faster hands. he was all about jeet jun do and really like the trapping aspects of it. even mentioning trapping usually brings forth about a billion arguments against it, but if anyone could pull it off he could no problem. for one no one would ever expect him to be that ****ing fast. for two he was so big he could likely just take the hit and trap after it connected. his kicks werent so fast but he puched ridiculously hard. the one person we saw him punch outside of class literally went skidding all the way across the hood of his car and on to the other side. i eventually went my separate ways and found a school that was better suited for me, but i have nothing bad to say about the man. he was friends with gary dill who was a little odd, but i dont hold it against him.

anyway, regarding the girl, i think my original thoughts apply to this situation as well.

[joedoe]

No, but then I am a fat bastard so I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Having said that, I can understand how the perception might be that you should be trim and fit-looking if you are a serious MA. That is the expectation of most serious athletes even though it is not always the reality.

[Samurai Jack]

Maybe. It depends onhow they carry themselves and present thier art. If I saw a three hundred pound wushu teacher with a beer belly, I'd be pretty sure he had an aversion to hard work. You can't do good wushu if you're too heavy to move acrobatically. On the other hand, a ninetey pound Sumo-tori might have decent technique, but I'd question them teaching, since clearly the person wouldn't have too much experience professionally wrestling.

Bottom line is this; if you can't physically manifest the attributes necessary to perform your art with skill, how good can you really be? It sounds like this isn't the case with your teacher. Maybe your style dosen't require the practitioner to be in particularly good shape. So what. If your teacher's good, forget the scamp.

[neit]

i think "out of shape" and "extra body fat" are differnet issues. there are those lightning fast old ****s with beer bellies that are a terror on the squash court. but then trim looking 16 year olds who cannot run to the mailbox.

[ricksitterly]

i would definetly say that, through human nature, we are automatically going to judge by appearance first... then through the other aspects of a person as they reveal themselves.

being a good teacher is definetly more about knowlege and experience than physical ability to perform the art yourself. but the question always pops into my head "why is this person (fat/ scrawny/ dirty/ smelly/ out of shape/ etc. ) ?" Sometimes it is beyond a person's control, but if they're appearance is lacking simply because they're too lazy to improve on it, this definetly affects my opinion of them as a person ... and definetly as someone i'm going to be "learning" from.

this reminds me of a korean tkd instructor of mine. the man was amazingly fast and totally ripped in his late twenties. some 7 years later i saw him and he had gained 40 lbs or so and looked a bit flabby. it was truly depressing to see an old role model of yours looking so out of shape. However, just this year I saw him again and he looked better than ever! Now 36, he looked just as I remembered him at 28 yrs of age. apparently when I saw him before he was going through a "bulking up" phase and was just waiting to shed the fat and reveal even larger muscles than before... and with just as much speed. It's inspiring.

I guess the bottom line is that someone's appearance has nothing to do with their ability to teach.... it only affects your ability to listen to them.

[David Jamieson]

presupposition has closed the door of opportunity on many people.

nuff said

[red5angel]

this chick sounds like a spoiled brat in my opinion.


I have to admit when I see an overweight instructor I have to ask myself how often or how hard they are training. Maybe it doesn't matter.
However, that said, I had an instructor who was a big guy in Karate and the guy was good. He worked as hard as we did, except he ran all the classes so technically was working a lot harder.

[Chizica]

Sometimes what you see is not what it appears. I attached a picture below of a guy I studied under for three months. He had a pot belly, but it was solid as well as his forearms being solid as well. You can't tell much by the picture. I no longer study under him as he used to constantly pester us for money to help pay bills that we didn't incurr.

[Samurai Jack]

being a good teacher is definetly more about knowlege and experience than physical ability to perform the art yourself.

How do you figure that teacher will be able to demonstrate that "knowledge" if he or she can't do it? How do you determine that teacher is skilled in the first place?

The answer is, you can't. If the teacher can't do it right, chances are pretty good that you won't be able to either.

You wouldn't study algebra from a teacher who dosen't know how to multiply, why on earth would you study a martial art with someone who can't demonstrate it?

[MasterKiller]

How do you figure that teacher will be able to demonstrate that "knowledge" if he or she can't do it? How do you determine that teacher is skilled in the first place?

The answer is, you can't. If the teacher can't do it right, chances are pretty good that you won't be able to either.

You wouldn't study algebra from a teacher who dosen't know how to multiply, why on earth would you study a martial art with someone who can't demonstrate it?

Do you think Lou Holtz can run a post pattern? How well does Bill Belichek hit a receiver coming across the middle of the field?

[Gangsterfist]

Look at all the fat white trash guys with mullets on ESPN 2 doing the MA brick breaking contests.

Or the combat Ki guys, I mean look at the guy who is their master, WTF?

Dr. Painter, heard some good stuff about him, but he had obviouis photo shops on his website. blame him or the webmaster?

I went to a demo last year where a guy broke 400+ bricks in a minute. WTF does that mean?

I broke a brick once, yup just one brick, wasn't really all that hard, if you set it up right.

Bottom line, when you get older you get fatter easier. Some people have really good genetics and are just naturally in better shape over others. I work with a guy who can eat a ton of food, and he never works out, and he is skinny. He is also older than me. If I ate as much as he did and didn't work out, I'd be like 40lbs over weight.

There is a larger guy in my wing chun class, who has been doing wing chun for many years and also holds a black belt in TKD. By the looks of him, you would say he is slow and could not kick at all. However, he not only can kick me in the face with ease (im 5'10") he can also do it with speed. I would have never guessed

One of the guys I train with is like 5'5" and not very big at all, and infact his hands are tiny. He is hands down one of the deadliest guys I know.

Judge a book by its cover? I think that says it all, or, judge me by my size do you? (for all your star wars geeks).

[Chief Fox]

Physical appearance definitely sways my opinion of a kung fu instructor.

I don't question an overweight person's ability to kick my a$$ or the speed of their hands or their strength. I do question an overweight person's kicking ability, flexiblity, over all speed and agility, and cardio vascular endurance. In my opinion to be an instructor you have to have the complete package. Otherwise, how can you effectively teach an art?

Just to clarify. When I say overweight I mean way OVERweight not a person with a pot belly or someone that is carrying around and extra 20 to 30 lbs.

Just to clarify more. Being overweight is not a problem. Being so over weight that it impacts the person's ability to teach is.

[PangQuan]

I am tending to partially agree with SJ. You cant judge a book by a cover, but you can judge a martial arts teacher by physical properties. This is not saying that overweight people cannot perform martial arts. I am implying that there are deffinate physical attributes that can be seen by anyone with some MA exp. The way the teacher moves, grace, speed, footwork, power. Here are a few examples of physical properties that can be judged regardless of what weight someone is.

If I see an overweight MA instructor, I watch how he walks, his fluidity of movement. The power he radiates when demonstrating the simplest of techniques. If the individual in question moves like any other overweight schmoe then he is either doing a very good job of hiding his skill, or he doesnt have it.

We have all seen how an ungraceful, clumsy overweight person moves. And we have all seen how a well trained and articulate overweight individual moves. There is a large difference.

Generally speaking, if a MA instructor is overweight it is due to a one or two of several factors, age, laziness, genetics, or overeating. Unfortunately one is capable of falling prey to all of these handicaps.

So again as I like to say "case by case"

[Chief Fox]

Do you think Lou Holtz can run a post pattern? How well does Bill Belichek hit a receiver coming across the middle of the field?

Your example isn't really relevant. The football coaches you talk about aren't teaching their players from scratch. When a football coach says I want you to hit that guy low, the player doesn't say can you demonstrate the technique one more time.

If someone said they were a football coach you wouldn't assume that they must be a great player in order to coach. But if someone says they are a martial arts instructor you would have to assume that they must be a great martial artist in order to teach.