Physical appearance and your martial arts teacher

[joedoe]

"Kung Li" is what I'm talking about. To maintain your body ability. When you get old, you may not be able to improve any more but at least you should be able to maintain the ability that you used to have. You have spent a lots of time and effort to obtain that ability, you just don't want to lost that when you get old. After you have lost it then you may never be able to get it back for the rest of your life because time is not on your side. Getting fat to me could be the first sign that "I'll go down hill from now on" and that could scare me more than anything else.

So basically what you are saying is that under any circumstance fat = bad

[joedoe]

That is not necessarily true. There are people who basically always have some fat on them regardless of how much exercise they do - unfortunately I am one of them. There used to be a top-level rugby player in Australia about 10 years ago. He looked like a couch potato, but he could run for 80 minutes.

[Blacktiger]

We need a definition of fat

[PaiLumDreamer]

Main Entry: [1]fat
Pronunciation: 'fat
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): fat·ter; fat·test
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English f[AE]tt, past participle of f[AE]tan to cram; akin to Old High German feizit fat
Date: before 12th century
1 : notable for having an unusual amount of fat: a : PLUMP b : OBESE c : of a meat animal : fattened for market d : of food : OILY, GREASY
2 a : well filled out : THICK, BIG <a fat book> b : full in tone and quality : RICH <a gorgeous fat bass voice —Irish Digest> c : well stocked <a fat larder> d : PROSPEROUS, WEALTHY <grew fat on the war —Time> e : being substantial and impressive <a fat bank account>
3 a : richly rewarding or profitable <a fat part in a movie> <a fat contract> b : practically nonexistent <a fat chance>
4 : PRODUCTIVE, FERTILE <a fat year for crops>
5 : STUPID, FOOLISH
6 : being swollen <got a fat lip from the fight>
7 : of a baseball pitch : easy to hit
- fat·ness noun



Main Entry: [3]fat
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : animal tissue consisting chiefly of cells distended with greasy or oily matter
2 a : oily or greasy matter making up the bulk of adipose tissue and often abundant in seeds b : any of numerous compounds of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen that are glycerides of fatty acids, are the chief constituents of plant and animal fat, are a major class of energy-rich food, and are soluble in organic solvents but not in water c : a solid or semisolid fat as distinguished from an oil
3 : the best or richest part
4 : OBESITY
5 : something in excess : SUPERFLUITY <trim the fat from the news operation —Ray Olson>
- fat·less /-l&s/ adjective

[Becca]

Thanks for answering the general question.

My instructor isnt obese...he just has a few extra pounds. He reminds me of a bear, actually. Something I wouldnt want to get in the way of.

He can perform what he teaches :P

In the rare case that he cant (acrobatics...hes a big guy, so he has more trouble making a flashy technique look nice.) he can still explain it so that I can. He can adjust if I do it wrong, etc.

Just to clarify.

In the words of another Pai Lum sifu, "Trolls don't fly." This responce was given to the question of why he rarely did jump kicks and such. BTW, he's a rather large man, as well. No way in hhell would I tangle with him.

[Mo Lung]

The thing is that carrying extra weight is not necessarily a sign of lack of fitness. A recent study showed (unfortunately I cannot give references) that an overweight person who exercised was in better shape than a trim person who did not exercise.

I could quote you heaps of sources if I could be bothered to dig them up.

Can you be fat and fit? Yes.

Can you be thin and really, horribly unfit? Yes.

The fact that someone carries extra body fat is not a sole indicator of their overall physical condition. However, extra weight can have other effects such as increased risk of type II diabetes, joint and tendon/ligament problems, CHD, etc. However, to judge someone's martial or athletic ability simply based on their outward appearance is naive in the extreme.

Incidentally, inactivity is now the number one cause of lifestyle related premature death in the western world. That beats out obesity, smoking, drinking, drugs, etc. So, if someone is fat but they are training regularly.....

[neit]

i remember half of the "personal trainer program" students at my college were weak and chubby. what made them think anyone would ever hire them?

kung fu however is not a fitness program. being strong and healthy is a side effect. if you train hard you will be in good physical condition, wether you look it or not.

[red5angel]

The thing is that carrying extra weight is not necessarily a sign of lack of fitness. A recent study showed (unfortunately I cannot give references) that an overweight person who exercised was in better shape than a trim person who did not exercise.

LOL! Define better shape. I'm not buying it. What Ming Yu says is closer to the truth, some heavy people can indeed be in better shape then thin people, but in general fat always comes with risks.

[PangQuan]

The word Fat is just the wrong way to describe what we are talking about here. There are two catagories of people with extra weight.

1) One who is obese due to the fact of overeating, genetics, and laziness either 2 or all three. An unhealthily overweight person.

2) One who is obese due to the fact of genetics. Some people are just packing extra weight. But due to genetics they would might be unhealthy were they to not have this extra weight. Some people have a genetic predisposition to have extra weight. In other words they are supposed to be a little chubby.

Its a matter of the persons lifestyle. If they exersize, train hard and do everything needed to retain skill, endurance, and strength then they are not anywhere that they should not be in terms of physical appearance or weight. This person we can call Thick.

Now if they are lazy, eat alot of processed junk foods, sit on the couch playing nintendo and watching jerry springer, then they are just out of shape slobs. This person we can call Fat.

BIG DIFFERENCE (no pun intended)

And yes there are people who in the autumn and winter years will start to slack when it comes to training, and they will put on a few extra pounds. This is just age. They reach a point where they can adapt, regardless. A few extra tires around the waist will just be a new circumstance to adapt to. They learn how to make it advantageous.

[SevenStar]

LOL! Define better shape. I'm not buying it. What Ming Yu says is closer to the truth, some heavy people can indeed be in better shape then thin people, but in general fat always comes with risks.

some people have an endomorph body type. These people will always look overweight, regardless of how fit they actually are.

[Ray Pina]

Recently I met a girl who trained eagle claw, and came from a slightly north area of Houston. When I found out she did Kung Fu, I basically bombarded her with questions. She told me a bit about her style and school, and even showed me a video.

Ok, cool. They look decent. I wont judge until I see her perform, though.

So I invite her to my school. She comes to a forms class, and does pretty decent. She lacked enthusiasm though. My Sifu said he knew her father from somewhere.

Anyway, she came back two other times...another class, and a sparring night. She fought a white sash, and our gal held her own against her. (But she beat me up, imo. lol )

Anyway, when she did fight...she would just swing her arms around. She left herself wide open a lot (she just kept punching down the middle, didnt really bring her arms back too much)...but im a nice guy, and not very aggressive at all...so I just kinda moved back and let her whack on me.

When she got hit though, she would stop, and hold her "wound". Before that she had told us to spar her like a guy...but when we barely tapped her she would get a little...whiny?

ANYWAY, im going off topic. Just trying to set the atmosphere. She was a nice girl, just high and mighty sometimes.

One day, we start talking...and she randomly brings up the fact that my instructor(s) are slightly overweight. She said she could not trust and learn from someone who looked like that.

I did a double take. "What...?"
"Yeah, if they do kung fu, they shouldnt look like that!"

Im thinking..."Wait a minute. You never saw the head instructor fight, and the teacher that did fight was beating up on your brother (who also did kung fu)...and you're telling me that you cant trust someone who is overweight?"

That just...made me feel bad. We had thought she was interested in joining, but that was an OBVIOUS NO. I personally know my instructor is a phenomenal martial artist...But shes judging by weight. When I first walked into the school for the first time, that thought never even crossed my mind.

Hey...if she would have said "Im too attached to my other school, but it was fun." or "It just didnt fit my style..." or...whatever...fine, I could understand that. But judging by appearance? Blah.

When you guys walk into a school to check it out, does the physical appearance sway your opinion of the teacher? Even if you never see them perform?

You shouldn't spar with girls. You either don't hit them and wind up getting hurt or looking bad or you do hit them and then you just hit a girl. There are plenty of guys to play with.

I know this isn't PC, and I've seen girls throw down in the ring, but compare that to a man going full blast on her?

As for your teacher, who cares? Is he teaching you good stuff?

[SevenStar]

You shouldn't spar with girls. You either don't hit them and wind up getting hurt or looking bad or you do hit them and then you just hit a girl. There are plenty of guys to play with.

I know this isn't PC, and I've seen girls throw down in the ring, but compare that to a man going full blast on her?

that's really not the right idea when it comes to sparring. if you are worried about losing or looking bad while sparring, you will never reach your full potential. sparring is merely a learning tool - an avenue to teach you to apply your skills. you learn by using that time to work what you have learned. If you focus on winning, you will eventually stagnate because you will be too focused on winning and you will use the tools that you know you can use, as opposed to branching out and trying new techniques/strategies. getting hit happens. in judo, there is a female brown belt who has thrown me a few times - no biggie - we're just practicing. We have a girl in thai boxing. it's rare that she hits me, but she has on occasion. Oh well. This is why I say that activities such as regular sparring keep an ego in check.

[Ray Pina]

It's not the winning or losing in sparring. It's the bad habits, the bad muscle memory you train in holding back.

Also, I know it's not PC, but you can also train the girl to have the wrong attitude. Maybe she does OK with your light sparring, maybe she throws you. She might stomp on the wrong guys toes, kick the wrong guy thinking she can defend herself and just **** off the rapist even more.

I know this begs the question, "well, what should she do?" I don't know. I didn't design the female body. When all else fails you have to fight. But a girl would do better to try escape.

Fueiling their ego that they can fight a man is dangerous. If you're an instructor, always holding back can be dangerous too.

[red5angel]

some people have an endomorph body type. These people will always look overweight, regardless of how fit they actually are.

sure but endomorphic doesn't mean you're fat , it just means you're heavier then the average for your body type. An Endomorph who is in good shape doesn't look fat in my opinion.
The other problem is "Endomorph" is sort of like "Rubinesque" in my book. Too many people use it as an excuse for carrying a little extra weight around. I had a freind who was a true endomorph, built like the proverbial brick sh!thouse, from head on he was practically square - but he took his shirt off and you saw the sixpack.

[SevenStar]

It's not the winning or losing in sparring. It's the bad habits, the bad muscle memory you train in holding back.

Also, I know it's not PC, but you can also train the girl to have the wrong attitude. Maybe she does OK with your light sparring, maybe she throws you. She might stomp on the wrong guys toes, kick the wrong guy thinking she can defend herself and just **** off the rapist even more.

I know this begs the question, "well, what should she do?" I don't know. I didn't design the female body. When all else fails you have to fight. But a girl would do better to try escape.

Fueiling their ego that they can fight a man is dangerous. If you're an instructor, always holding back can be dangerous too.

fueling the ego is one thing. pure skill is another. I didn't realize my typo - she's a black belt... been doing judo in germany since she was 8. She's genuinely that good. I've seen her throw several guys.

As far as "training to hold back" in the thai class, we rotate partners when we spar. in 10 rounds of sparring, one to two rounds of lighter contact will NOT be detrimental to my skill by any means. And she doesn't have to hold back on me.