The Tiger and Leopard Influence on Pak Mei

[fiercest tiger]

Ok, my observation on Bak Mei hand forms!

This in MY OPINION only and what i feel when training Bak Mei Pai.

1) The shape or posture changes to YANG

2) Develops Yang Chi

3) Aggression (intent) and external power

Now, has anyone ever trained and then couldnt sleep or was awake till late from training forms? Well i have and experienced all of the above, but to stop this one must learn to meditate and store or release the yang chi after you finish training. Over time this can lead to other problems which is another thread altogether!

So Bak Mei has meds to balance out the yang and settle the chi as well meds that develope Ging or a certain chi for fighting. The forms a merly a delevery system!


Any thoughts?

FT

[Soykuil]

So i ask again, who here actually practices an internal art?

Fu ying,
it is nothing about visualising, it is just about the fact that it is there.What do you feel when you practice chi gung? from your answer it seems you don't really understand it or mayber i have misunderstood your comment.

energy is what we are made up of and we are all connected, when you connect what is the feeling you get?

What about reiki? Do you believe in it and the healing energy it has?

[Fu-Ying]

Soykuil-

What fact is there? Qi...? well, if that is your answer, then comes the cliche question. What is qi and prove it's existence. Even, TCM physicians i have talked to and are good friends of mine cannot come to a definitive explaination of qi; thereby making this whole concept of internal/external just as elusive.

If you are asking me what I feel when I do chi kung, well then, you just made my point. How I feel is my personal experience (my subjective feeling). If it is based on feeling and not some observable independent event, then who is to say that my exercise, your exercise, Yum Cha's, isn't or is this "internal" qi kung experience.

Much less start with this whole internal is superior to external bullcrap.

Yes we are made up of energy, but also matter as well, so what does that mean.

I never tried Reiki and not too familiar with it, but I am open to it and it's possible healing powers. But that doesn't prove to me the existence of qi and thereof as an independent phenomenom.

[Lowlynobody]

Much less start with this whole internal is superior to external bullcrap.

I would say that you are the first person to bring this up in this thread. From reading your posts (mainly the way you keep trying to turn the discussion a certain way) I get the feeling you are bringing a lot of baggage into this discussion. Which you are then projecting onto what other people are saying.

Just about every time you have posted you have said the same thing. I think we get your point of view already.

To give us some background - what style do you currently study and who is your bak mei sifu?


Yum Cha,

Way to not be able to take some of your own medicine

[TAO YIN]

Fu Ying,

Did that E=MC2 bit fly right over your head?

[Fu-Ying]

lowly-

Posters voicing their opinion has become a psychological emotional baggage release?

I thought everyone is here to discuss kungfu and martial arts openly; or is it that one must agree with your opinion in order to be free of any emotional turmoil....?

Not only are you assuming you are also condecending in your words. If that is your preferred way of communicating then i say, my post was addressed to Soykuil, so MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

I don't do bak mei.

Tao Yin-

When you say something of significance I will respond.

[Soykuil]

Fu ying,
everyones experience with chi is different, yes that is true. but i still don't believe that a bak mei set can be internal.
Like i have said before is their version of internal a softer more relaxed form?

You still need to cultivate chi, you cannot get it through an external hand set. you don't just start doing a form and then presto you have the feeling of chi.

So the millions of people doing chi gung to cultivate chi and stay healthy are wrong by your standard. None of them practice external arts without chi gung, or what about the sifus of different external styles that compliment their art with an internal system, are they wrong too?

At the end of the day chi is there, you cannot control it, it will move around as needed. when we practice chi gung we all feel much of the same, our hands heat up, the tingling in the body. it is all the same, the only difference is the amount of chi you feel depending on how long you have practiced.

The same with reiki, you say you know nothing about it. the universal energy is channelled through us to heal as needed. i do not control it it just heals and that is it. it therefore heals each person differently because we are all different yet the feelings we get as the channellers is the same.

what styles have you trained in?
i have never said that internal is superior to external, i have said that i have been hit differently and it is more penetrating. i think you guys are misunderstanding us.
this is a debate and everyine has differing opinions about this

[TAO YIN]

Fu Ying,

Finally dude, that is the point. Nothing is significant. Man you got your blinkers on. Interesting, I was waiting for you to say, "I don't know; why don't you tell me?" What sucks so much about your reply, seeing as how I know you actually meant that literally, is that what I said is significant to this discussion only. What I said is especially "significant" to some of your posts because you are sitting there typing metaphysics this and that. I guess I was trying to give you a "helping hand," a road if you will, for some of the mess you have been spewing to tread on. If you don't understand the basic rational of something or how to express it, there is no reason for you to use some word to try to describe it. If you don't understand the basic idea that QI directly relates to E=MC2, why are you talking physics or metaphysics? Anyways, since I just told you, since I just mentioned it, now you can bend your next post to try and act like you know. In your next post, of course you will know this. Not only because I just told you, but also because you of course knew beforehand.

Anyway, you don't do Bak Mei? Yes, I know that wasn't meant for me to reply to, but you don't do Bak Mei? I'm all about others opinions, but if you don't do Bak Mei, then you don't do Jik Bo. You are driving a different car. Let me guess, "it's all the same?"

Anyways, if you want to act cool about it, like you tried to with your little sentence, I'll stick by nothing is significant. Why is nothing significant Fu Ying? What are you trying to say anyway? Summed up you have said one thing: "Internal is nothing more than a metaphysical experience." You're wasting words, and so am I. I'm sorry dude; I really am. You are to easy to troll, and I wasn't even meaning to.

[Fu-Ying]

soy kuil-

A feeling of chi. Yum Cha, do you feel chi when you do jik bo?

Millions of people do chi and compliment there "external style" ok, but millions more just practice their art and don't call it external or internal; and if this is such a fudamental truth, then you can include all physical sports that have no such concepts, are these billions of people wrong beacuse they are missing something?

I have trained in shing yi, choi lei fut, tai chi and judo. I like the bak mei style but sifu's are far and few.

Tao Yin-

Stop trying to be mysterious, your only coming across like a bafoon. So, enlighten me tell me how E=mc2 is related to qi. I am open minded, convince me.

Because i don't do bak mei means I don't know what jik bo is? Maybe I know people who do bak mei. Hmmm....oops...owned.

I didn't say nothing is significant. I just said YOU are INSIGNIFICANT.

[TAO YIN]

I figured as much. I am coming across as a bafoon to YOU! If I am coming across as a bafoon to others, then they also do not know what they or I am talking about, just like YOU! hehehehe! No, you didn't type that I am insignificant. You typed, "When you say something of significance I will respond." However, I KNOW I AM INSIGNIFICANT! YOU ARE INSIGNIFICANT TOO!

"Nowadays, more people act like sociopaths; on internet forums that is."

TY

[Soykuil]

Many people differentiate between external and internal and do classify their arts by those terms.
You trained in Choy Li Fut right? Are their external hands internal? they have added chi gung, like the 18 lohans etc.

Tell me then do you get the same results from hsing yi and Choy Li Fut? Is the training the same, use of power? CLF does use external power alot softer than some other but still external power.

I have trained in Jow Ga, similar to CLF and i cannot see how it is internal.

Do your friends who train in Bak Mei say that Jik Bo is internal and have they learnt chi gung that is bak mei?

Tao Yin, i got your point....You are so insignificant dude...LOL

[fiercest tiger]

I will post again later as this thread is really great, no player haters here just REAL KUNG FU people wanting to exchange knowlegde. So no one should be throwing stones, u know?!

OK, there is a pic of CLC in sitting meditation for a start, if he thought that Bak Mei was internal by doing just Fast hand forms then he wouldnt be sitting in mediation. I also have Great Grandmaster Ha Hon Hung in other sitting meditations with the monks for Internal YKM.

Here is a question, Does anyone know what the Meditations that CLC practised or learnt was for? Did CLC learnt the Meditation from Jok Fat Wan? I heard it was for the GING that he produced??

1st lesson to understand CHI.....In stillness comes MOTION!

If you do not understand that you will never understand KUNG FU!

TRUELY, this is a very interesting thread because we are not just debating and not so much arguing but rather its great to see what level people are at within there art and where they are headed.

FT

[Lowlynobody]

Who said anything about psychological emotional baggage? I said "baggage". Again a prime example of an inability to read what is actually written and not reply to what you "think" I'm saying. If you look at the fact that it seems you signed up to this forum (and you probably already have a regular name on KFO already) to post in this thread then you'll see what I mean about baggage.

Emotional turmoil? Where do you get this stuff?

You're **** right I'm condescending. Why wouldn't I be? You're posting in a thread regarding a subject you know absolutely nothing about - jik bo and bak mei. It’s amusing.

[Fu-Ying]

Soy kuil-

yes i know many people classify their styles according to these lines, but it is not a popularity contest, and even if it is, like I said before kungfu is in the minority with these terms.

CLF and hsingyi moves their body and strike differently.

As far as feel is concerned, it feels the same when you have to do full contact. Form wise, one feels different because you move differently. CLF uses full body turning and twisting, hingyi is more compact and don't use swinging type strikes, more like bakmei. They both faat ging as well and that feels the same, and they both have chi gung sets as well. This goes as well for tai chi, feels different cause you move differently doing forms, but during full contact it feels the same.

Does that make one internal and the other external? Or are they just labels that we put on them.

My friend who learned bak mei say he has chi gung sets, but he fights and faat ging just like everyone else. He also don't like the idea of these false labels internal/external.

lowly-

Let me give you a re-cap of what is goin on here, cause obviously you cannot make a connection, between what you said to Yum Cha and others like him and what I said.

You tell Yum cha bak mei is not internal he thinks it is, and you go into a whole elaborate debate about micro- macro orbits, so on so on....

I say internal/external are just states of mind to visualize their own feeling during training, therby making Yum cha's idea and feeling of internal just as valid as yours. If it is states of mind then who are you to say he is not doing "internal"?

And that I do not need to know bak mei jik bo in order for me to say. Incidentally, maybe I was taught jik bo or maybe have a good understanding of it, maybe beacuse i know people who know it.....oops.....got OWNED too.

[Soykuil]

I don't think the labels are inaccurate, i am sorry, what i do think is that people have misunderstood real internal.

It is obvious we are talking about different levels of internal. Let me ask you then, how natural are your moves within the systems? i ask this because we are talking about different things.

In my LHBF i am taught to have no body just be natural, breathing is natural, the moves are natural everything is relaxed. Follow the Dao as my LHBF sifu tells me.
when we spar, it is all soft on our side, there is no real force. In LHBF you could call it dead arms.
Now my LHBF sifu learnt, taught, fought and trained fighters in CLF. he gave it all up when he started training in LHBF and Wan Yern

In YKM and Jow Ga, bak mei and so on we are taught to have the luk ging, Hum hun Baat boi, TTFC etc. Now this is also taught in tai chi, hsing yi, baqua etc, but i have never been taught that way, as per LHBF. This is my understanding of internal.

Without sounding rude, from what i have seen and felt, there is a real difference. A true internal art can show the difference between the arts.

In YKM we have 3 internal forms, these are our highest levels. the first form is a healing form, second is fighting and third is the highest, the training.

Do the Bak Mei, CLF, Jow ga etc develop the chi during the training of the forms to help heal???

Now i am going deeper into internal, but this should help you understand what true internal means to me.
Like we have said before, we all may be on different levels.