The Tiger and Leopard Influence on Pak Mei

[fiercest tiger]

We arent talking about sparring and fighting we are talking about JIK BO as internal. You now have gone off topic! What you say is partially right, about sparring except that if you train chi kung and meditation that will enhance the chi to be flowing better and you CAN be more relaxed when you spar or fight. This depends on what type of MEDITATION you practise as there are many that a system has in order to make you A) A fighter B) Healthing and health C) Spiritial NOT ALL MEDS GIVE YOU THE 3 MENTIONED but thats why there are some systems that are more internal then others.

Now sparring, i think most look the same, but inside arent the same when one has done more chi kung then the other, if they have done it right!! Even MMA use chi kung and meditations to help over come FEAR, relaxation and make the moves faster. Ever Traditional art must have meditation as it helps balance out the yang or i believe its lost its ROOTS somewhere.

Soykuil,

Alot of arts use natural breathing, but the main thing is what we train we cannot explain in words due to its complexities of whats going on inside and the Butt. When we fight yes we all use Faht Ging thats normal, but the delevery of the strike doesnt have to be from the whole body like the arts you explained.

FT

[HupGerk]

fu ying,

There are specific practices in the internal martial arts that are designed to bring about a high level of internal development. These practices are not found in the external arts.

When I read your post about the external and internal systems feeling the same, I get the impression that you are doing internal forms in an external manner.

Regards

HG

[adi]

i agree with whats been said , but in the wild the tiger always attacks from a secure position, usually from the back to aviod the horns of the pray . So could this mean we should work on stances and position to aviod injury . The leopard never gives up always fights to the finish even when faced with a tiger , the tiger will mark its home range but the leopard will still fight even though it will die perhaps that can tell us somthing aswell.

[mantis108]

The 108th post of this thread. Sorry, guys can't help. please continue...

Mantis108

[Go Jun Long]

i agree with whats been said , but in the wild the tiger always attacks from a secure position, usually from the back to aviod the horns of the pray . So could this mean we should work on stances and position to aviod injury . The leopard never gives up always fights to the finish even when faced with a tiger , the tiger will mark its home range but the leopard will still fight even though it will die perhaps that can tell us somthing aswell.

Its not always just a secure place Adi, but if you look at it the prey is always fleeing, so where else is the Tiger going to attack from but from the back. It sneaks up on prey as close as possible and then attacks, usually causing the prey to flee, giving chase but not long though. Eventually going to the sure kill, the neck.
I agree many people have a possible misrepresentation of the animal influence in the arts, but its good to hear everyones opinions.

[Lowlynobody]

The other night while sparing I bit my sparing partner on the mouth and nose then took him down untill he stopped breathing. Sifu was outside lounging around up in a tree watching. It was totally sweet.

[TAO YIN]

Best post ever Bro!

[fiercest tiger]

It was great watching from the tree, until the rest of boys started eating the *****es ass out from behind like a bunch of Hyenas!
lol

eat it yeah biatch!

[adi]

intenal and extenal styles soft and hard styles , to develop diffrent ways of applying and feeling energy what can be gained from learing a little about everything , it must be better to know one style well and practice every day than worriyng about what other styles do or dont do. we cant learn everything about everything . Its nice to know thier are difrent energys ways of using them but perhaps not getting to involved because wouldnt this lead to problems in training.

[fiercest tiger]

External or hard chi kung builds different things to internal, what do you study?

Stick to internal thats all you need!

[fiercest tiger]

Matthew,

We are on both 2 different paths as you know, but we go way back! I respect what you do and never really ment to say you dont know BAK MEI just the internal side you dont really practise which is a shame. When answering questions on the forum its hard to feel the way you say it as you do give half a$$ed answers and try and make people think. My purpose of my comments was to try and clear up internal training comparing external training, that Jik Bo Kuen wasnt internal TO ME, and to attain micor-cosmic orbit isnt an easy task let alone trying to step finger thrust and punch as well move the chi in the bodys orbits.

You also have to understand that you also put down and say stuff that is offensive to me and my teachers sometimes even in light humor. I let it slip and laugh it off. We are Not best buddies i know but we understand each other and we can sit down and talk rational about things as we have done many times before. My students are similar to me and i teach them internal methods, so they share my thoughts and training methods! So they do have alot to talk and exchange about regarding internal bak mei, ykm, bak fu pai. I am a firm believer that you cannot achieve the high levels of those arts without the chi kung, meditations thats why we are arguing these points. The forum is to learn and educate brothers and sisters and sometime we all dont have the answers therefore one must seek other teachers of higher attainment of energy developement etc.

My coments wasnt to put you down or belittle you infront of the members here or your students, but to make clear my prospectives are on this subject as i do student what you study but now have more of internal training. You thoughts and sharing is always good here even for an old donkey like you!

my appologies matthew and to his clan!

FT

[Yum Cha]

We're cool Garry. Thanks for the note.

[adi]

thanks for the advice , the chi gung i practice is built into yhe forms . i think that this is a more complete way of training . it means that you progress at the same rate your forms chi gung . lung ying is the same so is wing chun . But that doesnt mean that you are a master of chi gung because you can do a form because both forms and chi gung take many years of practice.
wing chun uses budda palm but how many people really understand it , and can apply it properly?, there are difrences between diffrent branches of the same family tree , some people like to do fook sau as if they are pushing a heavey block , and other people like to keep it relaxed . but in both cases its done realy slowly . but i do feel it makes a fundamental part of the way we apply the art.
the problem is when you have been doing one style and you change it takes a long time to progress because you have two different things in your head.

[Tiger on Duty]

I think this is probably the best pak mei discussion i have seen, however having said that, there does seem to be some confusion over internal /external with jik bo etc etc.

1st what internal aspects do you think pak mei is after?


I do not think you can compare pak mei to tai chi in the internal department because the aims of the styles are very different, pak mei is aggressive tai chi defensive and the chi development is similiar to the aim of the style, pak mei practitioners can harness large amounts of chi but for very different purposes than tai chi, Wong kiew kit the famous shaolin sifu described pak mei as being a very powerful chi style but its chi use was almost purely for combative purposes, so as garry says if you want self development type chi gung then pak mei is not the style for you, which could be the reason pak mei sifu go on to learn other internal arts, or it just could be that they have not been taught the style properly and are filling in the blanks themselves.

So i think people are pigeonholing internal to mean soft, self development type chi when they forget the chi cultivation for combat.
Jik bo is an internal form cultivating aggressive chi development for combat purposes.

when comparing pak mei to other internal styles i always think of hsing yi and chen tai chi both hard , soft and explosive. compared to either of these styles i think pak mei is on par combat wise however internally i belive they are both more advanced as they have a greater focus on chi development for well being and not just combat.

Well thats my view anyhow.
Hello to all the aussie ykm and pak mei brothers.
Hello to all the other brothers i havent met yet.

Dave who is your sifu?

If you want to read more about the tiger and leopard concepts visit our site
http://www.chinesemartialarts.org.nz/ look under pak mei/concepts.

[fiercest tiger]

I think the Bak Mei forms develop alot of external force and can give you excellent muscle tone but can hurt you if done wrong. As for the Bak Mei i have learnt there is meditations for fighting and well healing.

Taiji is and can be a fighting art if trained for that, but its internal health benifits are very good as you have said. Do you think Bak Mei himself developed just a fighting art or a complete system of healing and fighting? I mean legend says he couldnt be hurt and he could move his energy around at will and hide his weak points?


FT