Effectivness vs. Efficiency?

[PangQuan]

I think Will's last post covered this issue the best.

[red5angel]

I think Will's last post covered this issue the best.

I think your mom has my issues covered.

[SevenStar]

something to take into consideration is perspective. compare a tma snapping roundhouse to a thai roundhouse. the tma kick is more efficient.

perspective -

for power, the thai kick is far superior.

BUT, for speed, the tma kick would be.

What are you thinking of specifically when you say "effective"?

[red5angel]

something to take into consideration is perspective. compare a tma snapping roundhouse to a thai roundhouse. the tma kick is more efficient.

perspective -

for power, the thai kick is far superior.

BUT, for speed, the tma kick would be.

What are you thinking of specifically when you say "effective"?

then for power the thai kick would be more efficient for power while for speed the TMA kick would be more efficient no?

[SevenStar]

d@mmit, stop complicating things

I guess efficiency would depend on perspective as well.

[red5angel]

I think for the most yeah, it's a matter of perspective. You have to establish what it is you're being effective at then determine what is efficient.

[PangQuan]

I think your mom has my issues covered.

I think she does but now shes trying to figure out what do do with her other eight fingers.

[wdl]

Seriously though. If something is effective, doesn't that mean it works? So, who cares how efficient it is if it works. Now if someone comes along with a more efficient way of doing something that is ALSO more effective, by all means jump aboard.

But still, if it's effective it's efficient in one form or another. Efficiency and inefficiency both have an effect on the outcome. An inefficiency would be paramount to something like a mechanical disadvantage and result in an ineffective outcome.

The whole "Effectivness vs. Efficiency" discussion is somewhat like comparing accuracy and precision in scientific terms. To be truely effective and efficient you have to have both.

-Will

[Fu-Pow]

In terms of general application:

Efficiency is important for well-defined and stable processes.

Effectiveness is important for poorly defined and unstable processes.

Is a street fight a stable and defined process?

[wdl]

Is a street fight a stable and defined process?

Absolutely not, it's a chaoticly dynamic event. However I'm not sure about your application of effectiveness and efficiency mostly because I see a lack of defining what's efficient and effective and what's only effective.

-Will

[red5angel]

In terms of general application:

Efficiency is important for well-defined and stable processes.

Effectiveness is important for poorly defined and unstable processes.

Is a street fight a stable and defined process?

how are you getting one withoput the other?

[FuXnDajenariht]

i just wanna add that sumthin can be poorly planned out and still be effective. you know the saying. crazy idea....but it worked didn't it? luck can come into play. i think efficiency is high percentage effectiveness. effective and efficient aren't synonyms though.

effective means that sumthin works. efficient means it works quickly and usually without fail.

[SimonM]

Which concept is more important for martial arts?

Efficiency is PART of effectiveness. An inefficient martial art will not be as effective as it could be.

You can have a very efficient method of doing something such as punching many times in a short amount of time, but without effectivness, many of these punches will not connect.

I wouldn't consider rapidly flailing againse an opponent's guard with no bridging or penetration to be inefficient. It is also ineffective.

However you can be inefficient such as punching slow (such as less punches in the same time frame, but with effectiveness you will connect with your technique.

If reducing your attack speed allows you to penetrate MORE there is a problem with your technique.

lineage... Isn't that the most important part of martial arts?

No. That is possibly the LEAST important part of martial arts except: uniforms (belts, patches, etc.) and cheezy sensei-bob moustaches.

[FuXnDajenariht]

and since we're on the subject. i think the most important thing in martial arts, as in life as well, is will, as in determination.

will finds a way. the great equalizer.

[Gangsterfist]

Ask that question on the WC forum...

Tsk tsk.................



Today in class we worked on a lot of chin na, grappling, knife attacks, etc. We did lots of clinch and stand up work, and typically 9 times out of the ten the most effecient answer was also a very effective one.

I think effeciency and effectiveness go hand in hand. Your effectiveness is not determined by a system or by a technique, its determined by hard hard you train it, and your physical attributes. For some people, some things are more natural and they catch on or learn faster, others need to do it 100 times before they can get the "effective technique" down at a basic level.

Now, lets say you take something like choy li fut, or taiji that tend to have larger circular motions over something like boxing or wing chun which is more linear, who is to say which is more effecient? It depends on the person I would say, but typical linear arts, IMO (opinion here not fact) tend to yield results faster than others because thery are more direct and to the point of fighting. That is ofcourse when it comes to striking, obviously a linear, angular, circular, etc art is not going to help you much on the ground, unless its principles and concepts carry over to that medium.