Yin AND Yang

[imperialtaichi]

i have to agree with bob regarding westerners and training. most (not all, just most) of us don't have the time to train 8, 10, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, myself included! we have to work, feed the kids, feed ourselves, socialize, train, sleep, meditate, etc. so therefore, we probably won't get as deep into our taiji as we would like to. of course, there are those who will be lucky enough to get the "superpowers" by doing half assed training once every other week, but they are few and far between. the majority of us, including my teacher, have to work, work, work at it.

I think the only way for modern men and women to get the most out of the training is to incorporate it into part of living... as discussed in another thread. We just can't afford the time otherwise. For example, when I get in and out of the elevator, I try to sense people's energy around me and evade and redirect the forces and pivot and turn etc. The only problem is that people think I'm nuts
:-)

Cheers,
John

[qiphlow]

imperialtaichi has an excellent point. if we look, there are always opportunities to train outside of the class setting.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Hardness and softness are subjective terms in comparison to the situation.. like the water example where ice is Yin by temperature to 70° water but Yang in structure (hardness).. Yin and Yang are interchangable within the same individual instance according to the opponent's application of the same.. If a larger opponent applies significant force and a smaller one uses less force to deflect, the smaller opponent is Yin or soft by comparison.. however, the same force used by the smaller person may be quite Yang compared to a person standing in Wuji.. Now, it should be noted that in the dynamics of push-hands there exists a condition where one or both players may each be Yin AND Yang at the same time.. suppose i twist my torso clockwise (right side yielding and left side advancing) neutralizing a push to my right side while simultaneously my left hand utilizes the natural energy of the twisting torso to apply force to my opponent's center.. i am Yin on the right AND Yang on the left (balanced).. it is this dynamic balance to which i refer the need for Yin AND Yang.. Hard and soft, as absolutes, are undesirable extremes.. The assertion that Taiji, at its highest level, is Yin discounts the necessity to include physics and kinetic principles.. it is an ideological concept, much valued philosophically for the wisdom of pointing the way to more subtle and refined Taiji experiences...

What i have experienced is that with careful listening skills and appropriate timing a Taiji player can apply "4 ounces of force" MORE than the opponent's and affect the balance and direction of an opponents intentions.. This is a tricky observation, although the opponent may be applying significant force in a particular direction, other directions are deficient, so.. carefully timed and carefully targeted "4 ounces of force" in an opponent's deficient direction will overcome the significant force applied in some other direction.. but, still, the applied "4 ounces" is Yang compared to the deficient target, if it were not it wouldn't effect change.. The comparison of the opponent's significant force in one direction is not appropriate in the application of "4 ounces" against the same opponent's other Yin direction.. (but, it sounds good).. 4 ounces will not meet 1000 pounds head on and prevail, it can be applied from a different direction to create change favorable to a desired result, but that direction is not supported by the 1000 pounds.. Even supposing that one's listening skills are so well honed that they read intention prior to manifestation and the "4 ounces" are applied prior to the full manifestation of the 1000 pounds, one has only deflected or controlled "potential" or intention by Yang application to the actual unmanifested 1000 pound condition..

I cautioned earlier against misunderstanding the "4 ounces" analogy in the hopes of initiating awareness of this important issue.. in hopes that students don't develop a "superior Yin" mentality.. and apply it when they need a balance of Yin AND Yang.. a false sense of Taiji.. The Taiji Symbol itself speaks of the balance and dynamic nature of interaction.. Even the cultivation and application of Qi takes on a Yang aspect when compared to the opponent's use of the same energies if you intend to prevail.. Likewise, the training and development of the skills necessary to prevail is a Yang intention in so much as the intention is to prevail..

In the grand scheme of things, even the analogies of water overcoming harder and more substantial forces is misunderstood.. erosion occurrs over time and the combined energies of water, over time, are superior to the fixed energies which it overcomes.. sure, the immediate or local observation of water's softness appears Yin, but the accrued energies of water are the deciding factor.. a single drop of water seems unimportant as it hits the flat rock, but.. over time, the combined energies of thousands or millions of drops will drill a hole through what appears to be a more Yang rock.. but, it is the water's ultimate Yang superiority applied and combined over time that prevails..

I hope this further clarifies my understandings of these issues.. i do not stand against ancient wisdoms lightly, in fact, i think i am hoping someone can validate them.. but, i am currently convinced that there is a misapplication of philosophy that leads students to shape their Taiji experience with misinterpreted concepts... Fortunately, our bodies and sub-conscious awarenesses care little about philosophy and the end product of sincere training will likely embody the notions i have shared here.. i am only hoping to communicate more clearly the actuallity compared to the ideology..

Author's Note: The above only represents "my" current understandings and is not intended to be an assertion of "truth".. I am open to change and revised understandings based on evidence..

Be well..

[SPJ]

Yin is relative to Yang. Yang is relative to Yin.

Everything is changing in relation to time and space.

The key is to change according to the opponent.

The opponent is moving fast, you move a bit.

The opponent is slow or retarded, you move fast.

The opponent is using a big force, you divert or redirect with a little force. You yield to the force by steps and rotation around the waist.

The opponent is using a small force, you take charge with a bigger force.

The Qi and Jing are all over your body. Huen Shen Si Jing.

Where to direct and release is all dependent on the opponent.

To listen to the opponent's Jing and Qi is actually using a small force of Peng to test the response from the opponent.

There is Yang in your Yin. There is Yin in your Yang.

There is gentleness in your hardness. There is hardness in your gentleness.

Kong Zhong Yo Ruo. Rou Zhong Yo Kong.

Kong Ruo Xiang Ji.

The Yin and Yang compliment and help each other.

The change and dynamic of Yin and Yang are represented by Tai Chi.

Thus the name is Tai Chi fist.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi TaiChiBob,

I like your thoughts concerning the cumulative Yin action of dripping water resulting in an overall Yang effect.

I too have considered some common misunderstandings many have concerning the example of the Yin principle of water overcoming the Yang principle of rock.

One of my thoughts has been that the Yang aspect of water, ICE, is actually much more efficient in wearing down rock than the Yin aspect of water. Consider the length of time it might take for dripping water or the wave action of water to wear down rock and then consider the actions of a glacier, the Yang aspect of water, grinding a valley or ravine out of a mountain, treating rock as Yin!

I am not intending to negate the Yin qualities or principles of water, because greater Yang always changes smaller Yang to Yin! I consider it merely a fascinating thought that many do not consider when formulating thoughts on the efficacy of the Yin aspect of water.

So we may say that Yin overcomes Yang, but also Greater Yang transforms Yang to Yin, and thereby overcoming Yin as well!

All this does is demonstrate the “mutually interdependent” nature of Yin and Yang! The effects of both aspects should not be minimized or ignored as you have proposed! Each give rise to the other, but also, the advance of one creates a vacum for the other to fill!!

Each subdues the other, but also, as one principle advances it creates a vacuum for the other to fill! So, just as Yin advances and subdues Yang, Yang follows and fills the vacuum left by Yin, as Yang advances and subdues Yin, Yin follows and fills the vacuum created by Yang’s advance!

By retreating Yin advances! By advancing Yang retreats!