MMA or TMA?

[Reggie1]

I think we gonna have to refer to "Grappling" as ground fighting from now on

Grappling and groundfighting aren't the same thing. IMO, groundfighting=fighting on the ground. In a 1-on-1, typically both fighters would be on the ground.

IMO Grappling=Wrestling. Can be standing, can be on the ground. Clinch work, throws, takedowns and groundwork are all incorporated under the 'grappling' umbrella.

[SwaiingDragon]

Effectiveness of TMA depends on your own instruction and discipline....

[SevenStar]

Anyway, grappling, throwing, and strikes (punches and kicks) are inherent in many CMA.

inherent. that word is precisely the problem. People say things like "my style is complete because it has throws in the system" - judo has strikes, but do you really think that a pure judoka is gonna outstrike a pure striker? No. I wouldn't consider those styles mixed any more than I would consider judo as mixed.

[FatherDog]

You may argue everything else is only entry. And the end is arm bar submission. You use the floor as an aid. I may use the wall as an aid for submission without both are on the ground. I may have submission standing too without any floor or wall as barrier or holding aides. I may use the rope, piece of cloth, or folding the opponent's arm against his chest, back or the other arm etc.

If you want to say only this style has certain techniques on the ground or against the wall or using a prop including wall and the floor, therefore it is far superior.

You can argue all kinds of things. The facts remain -

If you never practice against someone who uses takedown "entries", you will never become adept at neutralizing takedown "entries".

If you don't train on the ground, once taken there you will be more or less helpless.

MMA types aren't arguing that one style is superior to another; they are arguing that training standup striking/grappling and ground striking/grappling is superior to training only standup striking/grappling.

What if a fighter is very good and quick in strikes and neutralizes all of your entry.

And the fights never go to the floor.

What would be the tactics and strategy then?

If a fighter never trains takedown "entries" he will never neutralize "all of your entry" when your entries are takedowns. Period.

[SPJ]

7 *:

I cannot argue against your last post. Agreed that no system is complete. If you are good at something, you will have to give away something else. If you are good at throws. You probably would use everything else as entry and quickly land your throws. If you are good at strikes, you probably would look for opening and strike. You will pass on opportunities for throws, even though the opportunities are there. So it comes down to what is your prefered method of ending the fights.

FD is correct about the 3 points in your last post.

[SevenStar]

If you skip the form training then there is no difference between TMA and MMA. The form is the only tool that can bring you to the highest level and that's missing in MMA. The form that I'm talking about here is not like 70 moves long dancing form but single move solo drill form.

I don't know MMA guys train

- Long or short weapon fight.
- Knife or dart throwing.
- Dodging from throwing knife or dart.
- Group fight.

That may be the other difference betwene TMA (used for killing) and MMA (used for sport).

Just don't tell me that when you are swing your 6 feet long Maio-Dao, your are trying to follow some restrict rules and not trying to chop someone's head off. TMA has no rules and everything goes. If you can't win by your hands then try to win by your knife. If you can't win by your knife then try to win by your gun. You don't do sport and you don't fight fair.

the difference between mma and tma is more one of overall training methods, not the lack of forms work. And actually, you could liken shadowboxing to their forms work. Shuai chiao uses technique drills, not actual forms - is it mma because of that? No.

TMA has not rules and anything goes...whatever. Do you train these techniques at full power against an opponent in class? if not, than you just added rules. THEORETICALLY, it has no rules, but for training purposes it does.

Also, do you REALLY think that your avg tma would be a more efficient killer than your avg mma?