Tai Chi and Russian Systema

[Blacktiger]

Yep sure am our teacher works it in with our training...Its great.

There is a rumour that a famous Bagua Master was in Russia years and years ago and it is said he taught Stalin's elite body guards or something.
I study Liu He Zi Ran Men Kung Fu and our teacher constantly finds techniques that are the same as ours. Systema is big on all the internal energy side of things as well, have you seen their videos they are great!

So yeah its all about taking your opponents energy and giving it back ten fold and absorbing hits, being really supple and relaxed, no tension.
Its like Tai Chi, Bagua lots of the chinese arts

[Buddy]

To me it looks like drunken style mixed w/taiji. However it lacks a constant peng connection.

[bamboo_ leaf]

Its like taiji in some aspects but can never achieve the same things as taiji.
The main reason is that their model is very different, they take great pains to make sure that it is so.

I too am struck by the similarities to taiji and some of the same effects, and practices when compared. Having met a friend who did some systema I would have to say its very different.

They have no concepts or idea of shen, yi or qi, totally different model and explanations for the why and how things happen. Having said this I feel it’s a very cool art taught in a realistic way that most people can grasp maybe a little more easer then taiji

[bob10]

As some of you may know I spent soem years in TCC before coming to Systema.

Initially, I thought they were very similar. As my experience deepened, I think less so. Of course there are some commonalities, but the underlying concepts and training methods are somewhat different. Use of "floating root" is probably the most obvious.

Blacktiger wrote "There is a rumour that a famous Bagua Master was in Russia years and years ago and it is said he taught Stalin's elite body guards or something. "

That's a new one on me. Mind you I've heard so many things - Chinese emperors using Russian bodyguards, Ueshiba studying Bagua, etc, etc who knows what to believe. In some repsect Bagua is probably the closest CMA to the System but there are still many differences.


Bamboo Leaf wrote: "Its like taiji in some aspects but can never achieve the same things as taiji."

Interesting - which things would you say?

"They have no concepts or idea of shen, yi or qi"

Quite naturally, as they are Chinese concepts. It seems the System's philsophical roots lie more in Orthodox Christianity than anything else, which of course has its own concepts.

There is a nice article from a Taiji guy who attended one of our workshops at:

http://www.bath-taichi.co.uk/blog/20...d-tai-chi.html

I think he captured it well

cheers

Rob

[bamboo_ leaf]

Hi Bob,

Reading the taiji comments my thoughts:

(Rather than having a solid base to work on the Systema exponent pivots around the solar plexus. Depending upon the type of attack they are responding to this sometimes results in the feet wobbling about all over the place and the body rising up, both things that should be an anathema to Tai Chi practitioners.)

maybe in his idea of taiji, our or in my work we follow (one part moves all parts move) the body moves very much like the systema people there is no fixed point as he seems to suggest in rooting.

( These are things we train not to do, so it was unfamiliar territory for me. You'd think (from a Tai Chi perspective) that having no firm base like this would make your strikes loose power, or you'd have to rely on local arm strength for them, but I was impressed by the way Rob could make use of this floating root to avoid an attack and still generate plenty of body power in a wave like motion as a return strike.)

again his idea of taiji seems to be pretty basic if he does not understand how to genrate or use the others power in this way ( he does not understand the idea of empty and full). There are things that you or anyone else not practicing taiji will not be able to do because of the differnces in models and idelogy used, certain aspects just wont develop nor be there to use. These are some of the higher level aspects which I don’t really want to talk about on line as it would just cause to much conterversy and detract from a good post.

As I noted from my brife contact with my friend and the small clips I have seen on line I am always struck by the simularites. Reading and feeling my friend’s movement it is indeed different.

[bamboo_ leaf]

(They have no concepts or idea of shen, yi or qi"

Quite naturally, as they are Chinese concepts. It seems the System's philsophical roots lie more in Orthodox Christianity than anything else, which of course has its own concepts.)

These are not concepts but names for physical and mental manifestations that can be trained and used, with out them taiji becomes much like any other MA probably less effective since it is built around developing, and using these aspects

[fiercest tiger]

Hi John,

I think systema has alot of internal theories and i think Vlad is one of the most unique people to walk the face of this earth due to knowledge and the way he can apply his system against most attacks as well counters.

I see alot of resemblance of systema in my internal YKM forms as well Wun Yuen Yut Hei Jurngs soft body and natural footwork like vlad can do.

I would love to meet up with you for yum cha one day and chat regarding your Taiji and principles if you like to please feel free to call me or email. If you aint busy that is?


Garry YKM